Cyprus-Forum.com

[tsukoui]

Some idiots still think Greece has to manage the external borders all by itself to the benefit of the rest of Europe.

Straw man argument. Either show an actual quote where anyone on this forum has claimed Greece has to or should manage its external borders alone, with no help or aid in doing so - or shut the fuck up dear.

Some prize idiots think Greece should be sanctioned or expelled (if only the EU Commission had the power).

Straw man argument. Either show an actual quote where anyone on this forum has claimed Greece should be sanctioned or expelled (from schengen) - or shut the fuck up dear.

Some phenomenal idiots think managing hundreds of thousands of migrants should fall on the shoulders of Greece so that it can be criticized when it crumbles under the weight.

Straw man argument.... or shut the fuck up dear.

This then is what you do on this forum. This is what you have always done. Same old same old. You really can not teach an old dog or bitch (if female) new tricks in some cases it would seem.

The Great Fire Wall of China is a two headed dragon

[erolz66]

The Great Fire Wall of China is a two headed dragon

With one head basing their arguments solely on what has actually happened in the real world and the other on an axiom that 'Greeks are better than any other people in world' that has to always be presented as holding true , regardless and despite what actually happens in the real world.

[GreekIslandGirl]

The real threat to Greece is China which wants robots

Greece is the anti-China.

[GreekIslandGirl]

... The facility for Greece to get assistance from the EU through Frontex to rectify them has existed for some time.

In theory. Now the deficiencies in Frontex "assistance" have been identified, albeit in this roundabout fashion, then they are being held up to be resolved ..... maybe.

(PS - so deficient have Frontex been .... that NATO has arrived to help Frontex .... if you had a brain, it should all become clear.)

[supporttheunderdog]

... The facility for Greece to get assistance from the EU through Frontex to rectify them has existed for some time.

In theory. Now the deficiencies in Frontex "assistance" have been identified, albeit in this roundabout fashion, then they are being held up to be resolved ..... maybe.

(PS - so deficient have Frontex been .... that NATO has arrived to help Frontex .... if you had a brain, it should all become clear.)

This is as usual a bland assertion which is unsupported by argument let alone evidence, such as reference to The legislation or FRONTEX own website,
Jiggy Giggy is as usual selectively quoting, as to get help, as i have explained clearly elsewhere, GREECE has to ask for help, as FRONTEX had no mandate to intervene unless and untill GREECE requested assistance. This is against the background that FRONTEX's principal roles are to set common standards and ensure training is given so there is a common approach among member states, to evaluate and report member states compliance with the Member states obligstions to properly monitor and control the external borders in accordance with the requirements of the SBC and to Coordinate joint operations. This is where FRONTEX has no equipment nor staff for the performance of border control operations and where when FRONTEX is requested to assist, the personel and equipment are provided from other Member States border forces and where there will always be a member of the border force of the member state with any such team of personell from other member states.

This is all made clear in the FRONTEX website, which plainly you have either not read or, if you have, ignored. It is also as set out in the various EU law including 2007/2004' 562/2006' 1051 to 1053/2013', etc, all as time time to time amneneded or in the case of the main SBC, codified.

Why did it take until 3rd December for GREECE to ask for help?

Therefore if gIGGle girl, and i did so laugh at how ludicrous and divorced from reality her contention is, is going to gain any credibility she is in my view going to have to properly justify her position by reference to the law. She cannot, at least not in regard to the law as it stood from November 2015 till April 2016' which is the material time wheun insoections were performed and decisions taken, which laws were then valid and still are, albeitbin tbe case of the SBC codified, which decisions are not redundant, as they are still being acted upon.

Rather We will no doubt get a comment about some alleged reality which some how trancends the actual position, though it does not, but where what is being done is being done by virtue and in accordance with laws and decisions.

[GreekIslandGirl]

....GREECE has to ask for help, as FRONTEX had no mandate to intervene unless and untill GREECE requested assistance.

Among earlier requests for help which Frontex ignored, probably because of that aggressive incident by Turkey, even the request last May (2015) went IGNORED!

Greece needed help in the Aegean, but the EU wanted spies set up in northern Greece at the inflammatory Yugoslavian pseudo-annex of FYROM.

Mouzalas:

“In May, we asked Frontex for 318 people but less than 100 are currently involved in operations,” he said. “On September 25, we asked for 1,600 people and we have so far not received any response.”

Now, here's the rub as to why, despite Greece being overwhelmed with migrants, any attempts at requests for help would go unheeded:

German officials noted that the existing Schengen Borders Code provides for recommendations to member states that they request help from the EU “in the case of serious deficiencies relating to external border control.”

So all Greece's requests for help prior to the most recent 'evaluation' would have been ignored on such a pretext!

(- and that's more proof that cut&pasting endless EU 'laws' does not make you any more able to read and comprehend.)

[erolz66]

Now, here's the rub as to why, despite Greece being overwhelmed with migrants, any attempts at requests for help would go unheeded:

German officials noted that the existing Schengen Borders Code provides for recommendations to member states that they request help from the EU “in the case of serious deficiencies relating to external border control.”

So all Greece's requests for help prior to the most recent 'evaluation' would have been ignored on such a pretext!

(- and that's more proof that cut&pasting endless EU 'laws' does not make you any more able to read and comprehend.)

Classic GiG distortion. Let's look at the article you selectively take an out of context quote from and then put your own unsupported assertion (that had Greece asked for help before being found to be seriously deficient, it would not have got it), in some more detail shall we ?

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europ ... 5620151204

Germany's interior minister expects the EU executive to propose new rules for protecting the bloc's frontiers that would mean European border guards stepping in when a national government failed to defend them.

Calling for the reinforcement of the EU's Frontex border agency, whose help Greece called for on Thursday after (ie after they had been found to be seriously deficient) coming under intense pressure from other EU states

The Commission should put forward a proposal ... which has the goal of when a national state is not effectively fulfilling its duty of defending the external border, then that can be taken over by Frontex," he told reporters.

EU states' sovereign responsibility for their section of the external border of the Schengen zone is protected in the Union's treaties.

But the failure of Greece's overburdened authorities to control migrant flows that have then triggered other states to reimpose controls on internal Schengen frontiers has driven calls for a more collective approach on the external frontier.

Following diplomatic threats that it risked being shunned from the Schengen zone if it failed to accept EU help in registering and controlling migrants, Greece finally activated EU support mechanisms late on Thursday.

Austrian Interior Minister Johanna Mikl-Leitner said: "Greece is finally taking responsibility for guarding the external European border. I have for months been demanding that Greece must recognize this responsibility and be ready to accept European help. This is an important step in the right direction."

It is BECAUSE of Greece's failure to meet its obligation and its responsibilities and its duties under current rules, that discussions have started about the possible need to change the current rules and take those sovereign responsibility away from member states.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Now that we see Greece asked for help and it wasn't given help you have to jump in to support stupid stud's earlier mistake.

For you, it's a 'distortion' if people clearly state the facts but the facts don't suit your agenda.

Of course the EU has had to learn from this NEW crisis and CHANGE. It's what I've been telling you all along!

Unfortunately, idiots like you and stud keep harking back to reactive, isolated observations, lacking understanding of the novelty of the CRISIS created by Turkey and the unpreparedness of the EU 'laws'.

[erolz66]

For you, it's a 'distortion' if people clearly state the facts but the facts don't suit your agenda.

The EU says the Greece was found to be neglecting its obligations and you in response spend months arguing the EU did NOT find this, that they were more critical of Sweden and countless other total and blatant distortions of actual reality, all whilst 'screaming' liar and distorter at anyone who pointed out and demonstrated the obvious actual truth. Then you claim the above. This then is how you behave on this forum. It is how you have always behaved on this forum for year after year after year.

Of course the EU has had to learn from this NEW crisis and CHANGE.

Yes it has learnt that the assumption of the current rules, that member states can and will meet THEIR obligations re external boarders in their countries, is not one that can be relied on. Greece's failure has shown this.

It's what I've been telling you all along!

What you have be 'telling' me all along is that the EU did NOT criticise Greece - blatantly untrue. That the EU criticised Sweden more that Greece or Frontex or anyone other than Greece for Greece's failures - blatantly untrue. That the 'evaluation report' that mattered was in fact a document that was not even an evaluation report - blatantly untrue. That Greece is not responsible for external boarders within Greece - blatantly untrue. That the 'rules' used to produce the evaluation report on Greece, that then led to Greece to be given a three month deadline to rectify their failings , under threat of suspension from Schengen if they fail, were and are 'obsolete' and not current - blatantly untrue. You have spent month after month after month relentlessly repeating, the these and other blatant untruths. This is what you do. This is what you have always done here on these forums.

Unfortunately, idiots like you ....

As this is what you do and have always done here on these forums, ad hominen attacks to try and hide and distract from the absolute paucity of your 'arguments'.

Same old same old.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Between you and stud you've managed a salad of highly concocted deceits and misinformation with a slippery, oily dressing that avoids the facts which support the reality - as observed in action!

The erolz-stud sliding filament pattern of un-coordinated contractions - Along comes stud - makes another stupid statement (e.g. on amendments or asking for Frontex assistance) that is set right by a fact ........ then immediately erolz springs into action to twirl and twist the facts and attempt to liquidize them away with words and phrases and repetitions from past posts.