Cyprus-Forum.com

[supporttheunderdog]

Imo you guys both failed to see deeper into this.
The reality is they don't want those refugees in Europe.
That's why a number of EU states already impose border control.
You should both point to the EU hypocrisy regarding this issue, and not whether the EU hypocrites threatened or not Greece.
It DOESN'T MATTER if they threatened her or not.

What matters is that those hypocrites just try to hide their true face by looking for ways to stop it.
This is the reason they are strengthening Frontex, and this is the reason for the moment they concentrate on
bureaucratic issues that Greece has to follow. The aim is clear. To stuck those refugees for as much time as possible in Greece itself.
This should discourage more flow of refugees.
Another way is to lubricate Turkey to do it for them. What are all those 3 billions for after all?

Don't you understand this is what they are trying to do?
Simply because they are such hypocrites they can't spell it the way it is.

Remember it is those same Europeans who destroyed Cyprus's economy for their own reasons, by imposing measures on us
that were never imposed on any other country.
And you still have faith in them???

v

An Italian and A Portuguese bank have had bail-ins.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Greece has been put on notice that it must get its act togther or measures may be taken.

That's FAR from any threats of sanctions as erolz propagated. The measures being proposed are more help from Frontex!

Meanwhile, the same can be said for other countries who are less at the forefront of the onslaught of migrant arrivals:

The Schengen evaluation and monitoring mechanism, in place to monitor the implementation of the Schengen acquis, was strengthened to ensure an effective, consistent and transparent application of the Schengen rules and regulations by the Schengen Member States, while at the same time maintaining a high level of mutual trust between those Member States.

The strengthened mechanism covers all aspects of the Schengen acquis, including external borders, visa policy, the Schengen Information System, data protection, police cooperation, judicial cooperation in criminal matters, as well as the absence of border control at the internal borders and the functioning of the authorities applying the relevant parts of the Schengen acquis. It, furthermore, introduces the possibility to carry out unannounced on-site visits and gives clearer rules for the set up and adoption of evaluation reports and recommendations, as well as for the follow-up of identified deficiencies in Member State's external border control. At the same time, the Commission is given an overall coordinating role for the organization and implementation of the mechanism. This role is to be executed in close cooperation with the Member States.

In practice, the strengthening of the mechanism translates in Schengen evaluations to Member States implemented based on a multi-annual and an annual evaluation programme - for the period 2015-2019, 5 to 7 Member States will be evaluated each year, beginning in 2015 with the evaluation of Austria, Belgium, Germany, Liechtenstein and the Netherlands - and resulting in evaluation reports with concrete recommendations for remedial action. Subsequently, the Member State concerned is required to submit an action plan setting out how it intends to remedy the weaknesses identified. The implementation of the plan will be reviewed on a regular basis. In addition, Member States can be assisted in fulfilling the recommendations via practical and/or financial measures from the Commission, Frontex or other EU bodies. Possible re-visits will allow ensuring that the changes have been implemented.

In the exceptional circumstances where persistent serious deficiencies in a Member State's control of its external borders have been identified and when it is clear that measures taken by the evaluated Member State are not sufficient to ensure the adequate remedy of these deficiencies, border controls may be reintroduced temporarily . However, this is a step of last resort and would be used only if all other measures like operational support from Frontex were ineffective in mitigating a serious threat.

It's not just about Greece, although the anti-Greek brigade is the loudest!

[Paphitis]

Greece has been put on notice that it must get its act togther or measures may be taken.

That's FAR from any threats of sanctions as erolz propagated. The measures being proposed are more help from Frontex!

Meanwhile, the same can be said for other countries who are less at the forefront of the onslaught of migrant arrivals:

The Schengen evaluation and monitoring mechanism, in place to monitor the implementation of the Schengen acquis, was strengthened to ensure an effective, consistent and transparent application of the Schengen rules and regulations by the Schengen Member States, while at the same time maintaining a high level of mutual trust between those Member States.

The strengthened mechanism covers all aspects of the Schengen acquis, including external borders, visa policy, the Schengen Information System, data protection, police cooperation, judicial cooperation in criminal matters, as well as the absence of border control at the internal borders and the functioning of the authorities applying the relevant parts of the Schengen acquis. It, furthermore, introduces the possibility to carry out unannounced on-site visits and gives clearer rules for the set up and adoption of evaluation reports and recommendations, as well as for the follow-up of identified deficiencies in Member State's external border control. At the same time, the Commission is given an overall coordinating role for the organization and implementation of the mechanism. This role is to be executed in close cooperation with the Member States.

In practice, the strengthening of the mechanism translates in Schengen evaluations to Member States implemented based on a multi-annual and an annual evaluation programme - for the period 2015-2019, 5 to 7 Member States will be evaluated each year, beginning in 2015 with the evaluation of Austria, Belgium, Germany, Liechtenstein and the Netherlands - and resulting in evaluation reports with concrete recommendations for remedial action. Subsequently, the Member State concerned is required to submit an action plan setting out how it intends to remedy the weaknesses identified. The implementation of the plan will be reviewed on a regular basis. In addition, Member States can be assisted in fulfilling the recommendations via practical and/or financial measures from the Commission, Frontex or other EU bodies. Possible re-visits will allow ensuring that the changes have been implemented.

In the exceptional circumstances where persistent serious deficiencies in a Member State's control of its external borders have been identified and when it is clear that measures taken by the evaluated Member State are not sufficient to ensure the adequate remedy of these deficiencies, border controls may be reintroduced temporarily . However, this is a step of last resort and would be used only if all other measures like operational support from Frontex were ineffective in mitigating a serious threat.

It's not just about Greece, although the anti-Greek brigade is the loudest!

If Greece wants to solve all its problems quickly, then they should employ Tony Abbott.

He has currently been consulting the EU as we speak and is an expert in the matter.

[Paphitis]

Of course they don't want refugees !!!
Europe has gone crazy, the future generations will pay the price, These are not the refugees of years gone by. They are a different type of a refugee or immigrant,

Whats wrong with Saudi Arabia, Dubai, UAE, and many more ME countries who share their culture.
I know, they don't offer housing and benefits on the plate, refuges/ immigrants know this, Europe is their paradise !!

The only person who is different is YOU old man.

These refugees are even more hard working than the Italian and Greek migrants that went to the Americas and Australia. Soon, they will be employing your grand children.

[erolz66]

That's FAR from any threats of sanctions as erolz propagated. The measures being proposed are more help from Frontex!

And so you just go on and on and on with the same old patently incorrect distortion of reality.

The document you relentlessly quote from and claim is the 'evaluation report' - this document http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/e- ... rea_en.pdf as if it is the only relevant document is not even an 'evaluation report'. It is, as it's title states a "report on the functioning of the Schengen area". It has, along with a lot else, a section that details those evaluation reports that were the result of visits to specific countries. Some of those visits had resulted in evaluation reports on those countries being available (Austria and Belgium and Sweden for example) at the time the report was produced and in those cases is describes what measures it recommend as a result of these evaluation reports have been adopted by the EU Council and those that have not. It also details those countries that have had visits but where the evaluation report as a result of that visit was not yet available at the time the report was written, like those to Germany and Netherlands and Spain, Hungary and Poland. And Greece another country where the evaluation report was not yet available.

It has a conclusions section but this "Eighth biannual report on the functioning of the Schengen area" document itself does not contain recommendations that are to be put to the EU Council for adoption or not. It details those recommendation that were put forward by it as a result of the individual evaluation reports carried out on those countries, that were available at the time the report was produced and if and which of those recommendations were subsequently adopted by the EU Council. It does not detail what recommendations it made based on evaluation reports on individual countries that had not at that time been finalised and made available - obviously.

The evaluation report on Greece following the visits to Chios and Samos , that was not finalised at the time the "Eighth biannual report on the functioning of the Schengen area" was produced, has now been finalised and adopted by the EU Commission. The objectives of the recommendations of that evaluation report detailed in the press release titled "Commission adopts Schengen Evaluation Report on Greece and proposes recommendations to address deficiencies in external border management" and available here http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-16-211_en.htm They are

The recommendations seek to ensure that Greece applies all Schengen rules related to management of external border correctly and effectively. Recommendations are made in a number of areas such as the improvement of the registration procedures, including ensuring a sufficient number of staff and fingerprint scanners for registration and verification of migrants and their travel documents against SIS, Interpol and national databases. Greece should provide the necessary facilities for accommodation during the registration process and launch return procedures for irregular migrants who are not seeking asylum and who are not in need of international protection. Border surveillance should be improved, including the establishment of a risk analysis system and increased training of border guards. Improvements should also be made to infrastructure and equipment at the border crossing points.

Your attempts to misrepresent the document titled "Eighth biannual report on the functioning of the Schengen area" as being the singular EU Commission 'evaluation report' and the only report that lays out the EU Commission's recommendations to the EU Council as a result of evaluation reports on individual countries are as relentless as they are patently not correct and as they are shameless.

[supporttheunderdog]

Erolz,

As Usual when the bubble that constitutes gIGAGle's rosy tinted if not blinkered hellenocentric la-la land make-believe world is puctured, rationality flies out the window, and one sees a full blown manifestation of the "shoot the messenger" syndrome. She calls us liars because we point out factually and by reference to EU Material that Greece had been notified that if violations were found she could have requirements imposed upon her , which if not complied with her membership of Schengen could be suspended , that evaluations in November showed serious deficiencies have been found in the implementation of Schengen requirements by Greece and that in consequence Greece was obliged to take measures to correct those deficiencies, with one possible consequence being, as outlined, suspension of her Schengen membership. I do not think either of us have expressed the view that this is desireable, and we both recognise that Greece is facing a difficult situation because of the very close proximity of Greek Islands to Turkey, which are a the destination of choice of irregular migrants as a gateway to the EU.

The only person lying is Oracle/Phoenix/"g"IG, and that mostly to her self.

[GreekIslandGirl]

That's FAR from any threats of sanctions as erolz propagated. The measures being proposed are more help from Frontex!

And so you just go on and on and on with the same old patently incorrect distortion of reality.

The document you relentlessly quote from and claim is the 'evaluation report' - this document http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/e- ... rea_en.pdf as if it is the only relevant document is not even an 'evaluation report'. It is, as it's title states a "report on the functioning of the Schengen area". It has, along with a lot else, a section that details those evaluation reports that were the result of visits to specific countries. Some of those visits had resulted in evaluation reports on those countries being available (Austria and Belgium and Sweden for example) at the time the report was produced and in those cases is describes what measures it recommend as a result of these evaluation reports have been adopted by the EU Council and those that have not. It also details those countries that have had visits but where the evaluation report as a result of that visit was not yet available at the time the report was written, like those to Germany and Netherlands and Spain, Hungary and Poland. And Greece another country where the evaluation report was not yet available.

It has a conclusions section but this "Eighth biannual report on the functioning of the Schengen area" document itself does not contain recommendations that are to be put to the EU Council for adoption or not. It details those recommendation that were put forward by it as a result of the individual evaluation reports carried out on those countries, that were available at the time the report was produced and if and which of those recommendations were subsequently adopted by the EU Council. It does not detail what recommendations it made based on evaluation reports on individual countries that had not at that time been finalised and made available - obviously.

The evaluation report on Greece following the visits to Chios and Samos , that was not finalised at the time the "Eighth biannual report on the functioning of the Schengen area" was produced, has now been finalised and adopted by the EU Commission. The objectives of the recommendations of that evaluation report detailed in the press release titled "Commission adopts Schengen Evaluation Report on Greece and proposes recommendations to address deficiencies in external border management" and available here http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-16-211_en.htm They are

The recommendations seek to ensure that Greece applies all Schengen rules related to management of external border correctly and effectively. Recommendations are made in a number of areas such as the improvement of the registration procedures, including ensuring a sufficient number of staff and fingerprint scanners for registration and verification of migrants and their travel documents against SIS, Interpol and national databases. Greece should provide the necessary facilities for accommodation during the registration process and launch return procedures for irregular migrants who are not seeking asylum and who are not in need of international protection. Border surveillance should be improved, including the establishment of a risk analysis system and increased training of border guards. Improvements should also be made to infrastructure and equipment at the border crossing points.

Your attempts to misrepresent the document titled "Eighth biannual report on the functioning of the Schengen area" as being the singular EU Commission 'evaluation report' and the only report that lays out the EU Commission's recommendations to the EU Council as a result of evaluation reports on individual countries are as relentless as they are patently not correct and as they are shameless.

Where the hell do any of those support your lie that the EU Commission threatened Greece with sanctions?

All the countries in Schengen have controls, all are scrutinized and nearly all who are affected by migrants have been told to increase measures and some have suspended Schengen to impose border controls. Big Deal - Another Turkish-made problem we have to clean up!

The irony here, is that your enormous hatred of Greece has stopped you showing some logic and asking WHY Greece hasn't in fact been suspended from Schengen. Logic would dictate that you would have to remain silent and stop spreading propaganda if you had to accept the one little reality about WHY it doesn't really matter if Greece came out of Schengen. Looking at the situation logically would mean YOU would have to STOP posting anti-Greek propaganda. Much better not to apply your pseudo-phillia for logic and carry on perpetuating falsehood deductions from misrepresentations of craftily-cobbled quotes.

Find a sentence that supports your statement that the EU Commission is threatening Greece with SANCTIONS or check yourself into rehab!

[erolz66]

Where the hell do any of those support your lie that the EU Commission threatened Greece with sanctions?

It is a FACT that the EU Commission has released two press releases about the conclusions of the "Schengen Evaluation Report on Greece" and what happens as a result of this report's conclusions. These press releases are NOT about the "Eighth biannual report on the functioning of the Schengen area" as you have now erroneously claimed directly or indirectly multiple times over and over across multiple threads. They are about the "Schengen Evaluation Report on Greece". FACT despite all your attempts at distortion.

It is a FACT that this "Schengen Evaluation Report on Greece" concluded that "Greece is seriously neglecting its obligations and that there are serious deficiencies in the carrying out of external border controls that must be overcome and dealt with by the Greek authorities." FACT

It is a FACT that the only mechanism by which the EU could ever suspend a Schengen member from Schengen under the current Schengen Acquis is by following a procedure that can only start after a "Schengen Evaluation Report on that member" has found it is "seriously neglecting its obligations under the Schengen rules" and if there are "serious deficiencies in the carrying out of external border control".

It is a FACT that in response to the EU Commission announcing that the ""Schengen Evaluation Report on Greece" had concluded that "Greece is seriously neglecting its obligations and that there are serious deficiencies in the carrying out of external border controls that must be overcome and dealt with by the Greek authorities." media outlets across the world reported this as Greece having been threatened with possible suspension from Schengen by the EU.

These are all FACTS.

All the countries in Schengen have controls, all are scrutinized and nearly all who are affected by migrants have been told to increase measures and some have suspended Schengen to impose border controls. Big Deal - Another Turkish-made problem we have to clean up!

It is a FACT that the only mechanism by which the EU could ever suspend a Schengen member from Schengen under the current Schengen Acquis is by following a procedure that can only start after a "Schengen Evaluation Report on that member country" has found it is "seriously neglecting its obligations under the Schengen rules" and if there are "serious deficiencies in the carrying out of external border control".

It is a FACT that the only country to date to have ever been found in a "Schengen Evaluation Report" to be "seriously neglecting its obligations and that there are serious deficiencies in the carrying out of external border controls" is Greece. FACT. If any other country had of been found in such a report to have "seriously neglecting its obligations and that there are serious deficiencies in the carrying out of external border controls" then there would have been media reports around the world stating that country had been threatened suspension from Schengen by the EU.

The irony here, is that your enormous hatred of Greece ....

I have no hatred of Greece or of Greeks. My hatred is of you behaviour on this forum, of your systematic distortion of reality combined with your frankly disgusting systematic attacks on anyone that dares to challenge you about such, that is driven by your hatred of Turkey and Turks.

....has stopped you showing some logic and asking WHY Greece hasn't in fact been suspended from Schengen.

You do not need logic to understand that

"the only mechanism by which the EU could ever suspend a Schengen member from Schengen under the current Schengen Acquis is by following a procedure that can only start after a "Schengen Evaluation Report on that member country" has found it is "seriously neglecting its obligations under the Schengen rules" and if there are "serious deficiencies in the carrying out of external border control"."

Nor does it take logic to understand that this is exactly what the EU Commission has done in regards to Greece, started the only process that could end up with the ultimate sanction under current Schengen Acquis of suspension from Schengen. It just takes an ability to read and comprehend what the EU Commission has clearly stated in it's press releases on the matter.

if you had to accept the one little reality about WHY it doesn't really matter if Greece came out of Schengen. Looking at the situation logically would mean YOU would have to STOP posting anti-Greek propaganda.

If you want to now start a discussion about if it matters or not if Greece is suspended from Schengen, to Greece, to the EU or too the Schengen member countries, then by all means do that, but such is not germaine to this discussion and is in the context of that discussion simply a distraction.

[erolz66]

As Usual when the bubble that constitutes gIGAGle's rosy tinted if not blinkered hellenocentric la-la land make-believe world is puctured, rationality flies out the window, and one sees a full blown manifestation of the "shoot the messenger" syndrome.

The only person lying is Oracle/Phoenix/"g"IG, and that mostly to her self.

Thank you not only for seeing GiG's behaviour for what is, but having the courage to say so here on this forum, which is no small thing given how she behaves towards people who do have such temerity.

[GreekIslandGirl]

When do "FACTS" seize to be facts? Simply, when people such as Erolz twist them and apply them in the WRONG context.

There is another simple fact behind why your claims that the EU Commission has threatened Greece with sanctions are absolute lies.

One, because you have FAILED to find any such quoted threat, and two, because any *failures* to control the number of refugees at the external borders , by Greece, are NOT in breach of Schengen rules! There is NO obligation by Greece itself to stop refugees crossing the external borders!

Greece is NOT Failing ANY obligations! It is NOT the job of Greece to control migrants and refugees!

So you see you lying twisting little knave - the EU Commission would not make such a threat to Greece - as I said, only to those internal countries some of which already have border controls and would like to extend them!

Meanwhile, Frontex is still screaming to do its job of controlling the external borders?

FRONTEX ASKS FOR ADDITIONAL 269 OFFICERS FOR REGISTERING MIGRANTS

Frontex has called on the authorities of EU Member States and Schengen Associated Countries to contribute an additional 269 officers to help screen, fingerprint and register migrants at the European Union’s external borders.

Member States have so far agreed to provide 320 officers to help at the external borders most affected by the unprecedented migratory flows this year, mainly in Greece.

Frontex has already strengthened Operation Poseidon Sea and deployed 133 officers on Lesbos and other Greek islands to support the local authorities in identifying, registering and fingerprinting of new arrivals. This includes 55 officers deployed at the Lesbos hotspot, where Frontex is completing a pilot project of an accelerated registration process to shorten the waiting time for the migrants and pave the way for relocation of asylum seekers.

Frontex has also offered to increase its presence on the Greek land borders with the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia and Albania, as well as Croatia’s border with Serbia.

“Considering the critical situation we are facing and the large number of officers requested by Frontex to be deployed I decided that we can have a flexible approach to the types of officers and experts we are asking for,” said Frontex Executive Director Fabrice Leggeri.

“These officers may not necessarily come from the border police, but also from migration or other law enforcement related bodies,” he added.

More than 540 000 migrants have arrived on the Greek islands in the first ten months of the year, which was 13 times more than in the same period of 2014. As a direct knock-on effect, some 500 000 detections of illegal border crossings were recorded on the EU’s external borders in the Western Balkans, mainly on Hungary’s and Croatia’s borders with Serbia.