Cyprus-Forum.com

by **Lordo** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:36 pm

rw you are not following the talks.

bbf means there will be two federal states, one terggish cypriot and the other greak cypriot. above the state structure there will be a federal government with equal representation. it really aint that difficult. the rest will fall into place.

by **repulsewarrior** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 10:00 pm

no rw the tcs will not have a self representative body. both gcs and tcs will have a federal state each with equal power at the federal level. that has been agreed. just property territory and guarantees left.

:Lordo

...yawn. (if i used smilies there would be one kicking you in the butt, as well)

...as i said, you are hoping for things to remain just as they are.
...when you say, "a federal government with equal representation", which is it?
...equal representation as Individuals, or equal representation as "Greeks", and "Turks"?

by **Lordo** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 10:26 pm

repulsewarrior wrote:
no rw the tcs will not have a self representative body. both gcs and tcs will have a federal state each with equal power at the federal level. that has been agreed. just property territory and guarantees left.

:Lordo

...yawn. (if i used smilies there would be one kicking you in the butt, as well)

...as i said, you are hoping for things to remain just as they are.
...when you say, "a federal government with equal representation", which is it?
...equal representation as Individuals, or equal representation as "Greeks", and "Turks"?

equal representation as a community rw not individuals. forget individuals, when you have two communities one larger than the other, individual equality does not work as the kerds found out in terggy. kerdish person has as much political right as any other in terrgy but it does not work. you really nead to clear your nose and smell the bullshit around those who claim to be democratic but are nothing of the kind. fascists who want to bring a community to its knees. never again not in a million years.

by **Oceanside50** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 10:46 pm

Lordo wrote:
repulsewarrior wrote:
no rw the tcs will not have a self representative body. both gcs and tcs will have a federal state each with equal power at the federal level. that has been agreed. just property territory and guarantees left.

:Lordo

...yawn. (if i used smilies there would be one kicking you in the butt, as well)

...as i said, you are hoping for things to remain just as they are.
...when you say, "a federal government with equal representation", which is it?
...equal representation as Individuals, or equal representation as "Greeks", and "Turks"?

equal representation as a community rw not individuals. forget individuals, when you have two communities one larger than the other, individual equality does not work as the kerds found out in terggy. kerdish person has as much political right as any other in terrgy but it does not work. you really nead to clear your nose and smell the bullshit around those who claim to be democratic but are nothing of the kind. fascists who want to bring a community to its knees. never again not in a million years.

Cyprus being in the Eu, it's a lot more likely that individual rights will be upheld and not community rights.. This is what the EU is all about...special rights to a minority of Tc in order that they can abuse individual rights is going backwards. I wouldn't be surprised if the results of this round of solution plan hits 90% OXI

by **repulsewarrior** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 11:10 pm

@ Lordo,

Unlike you, i am unwilling to dismiss my identity as an Individual. You/"You" can dismiss the fact that our enemies are bigger than each other, but i do not. You/"You" may feel comfortable living in the realm of a single dogma, i choose to learn from life what i can. Being a "Greek" is not that important to me, being a "Turk" seems far more important to you than being a better Human being. I respect the diversity of Peoples, i recognise i am enriched by its wealth, you/"you" fear this resisting any (what might be a) change to "Turkishness".

...indeed, you are missing the point. If in Turkey a BBF was applied as i have suggested, the Republic of Turkey would continue to exist. Constituencies within Turkey, would allow at another level of governance, Liberty, an autonomy as Persons, where as Persons, people (Individuals) can sustain, within a Judicial Territory, its distinct identities with self representation.

...what are you suggesting, the Kurds should tear a slice out of Turkey?

by **Lordo** » Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:35 am

its not about change, it is about ethnic cleansing of tcs using economic means. as to the kerdds, bbf would be perfect for them. they will be in control of their own lives completely as they would have control at the federal level to protect themselves legally, economically and militarily.

this individual democratic right is full of shit. it give people the perception that they have power where as in fact all it does is that it allows an individual to put a cross on a piece of paper every 5 years with no change of policy no matter who gets in power.

considering the only talks are bbf talking about any other system is just hot air and can do huge damage to cyprus. people will be fooled again to vote no because there is a better agreement in the future and yet it will lead to permanent division.

by **Oceanside50** » Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:16 pm

Lordo wrote:its not about change, it is about ethnic cleansing of tcs using economic means. as to the kerdds, bbf would be perfect for them. they will be in control of their own lives completely as they would have control at the federal level to protect themselves legally, economically and militarily.

this individual democratic right is full of shit. it give people the perception that they have power where as in fact all it does is that it allows an individual to put a cross on a piece of paper every 5 years with no change of policy no matter who gets in power.

considering the only talks are bbf talking about any other system is just hot air and can do huge damage to cyprus. people will be fooled again to vote no because there is a better agreement in the future and yet it will lead to permanent division.

"...the individual democratic right is full of shit.."

Individual rights are what the west is moving towards, a Zulu moving to Belgium has the same inalienable rights as a native. You want a minority community to have equality with the majority.

by **repulsewarrior** » Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:41 pm

...Lordo, it implies you would rather feel helpless and compelled to act; Individual Rights are "full of shit"?

While you may deny the usefulness of Individual Rights others do not. Why should others ignore them? Why should this desire, for Individual Rights, by others be ignored?

...may i suggest that the Liberty you seek, to live as a Person in a mono clonal society is not Freedom. They are not one in the same, either.

...as for your ideas on "ethnic cleansing", i suggest you look toward the illegal occupier, who have changed the demographics in a manner where Cypriots, Turkish or Greek, likely cannot survive.

by **Mustiejodu** » Fri Jan 01, 2016 10:40 am

The problem with every single person on this forum be it GC,TC with liberal or extremist views is that there is nothing new to bring a resolution to the table. The word partition has been in everyone's tongue at some point in history, the word independence has also, unification. Oh the most used words are EOKA, TAKSIM , FEDERALISM etc etc . I think we have done the full circle but one thing that has kept both from killing each other for the past 50 years is the illegal separation as some would call it. Once upon a time there was peace and harmony and trust between both ethnic communities but that was violated and once you violate trust and peace it is very hard to repair the cracks. I could be entirely wrong . I for sure know the invasion was inevitable because the stage was set for that in 1974 which we all know but what if it was temporary separation and we lived together again perhaps after a year of separation or even a withdrawal of the army after they invaded . Similar to what the USA and Brits done in Iraq . Now I have touched on a very likely outcome of what could have happened if the army withdrew like USA and Brits did from Iraq. There is not one country that has been invaded and afterwards withdrawn where 2 SEPERATE ethnic groups have had peace afterwards . History has clearly shown us the disaster in Iraq, Syria. There are so many factions in other country's where there is no peacfull coexistence. I for sure believe that it is the separation that keeps the peace . I base this on all the outcomes of all countries that we now see in turmoil. Now you can't use east and west Germany as an example because they are the same race and faith. If you can show me one example that reflects the exact circumstances as Cyprus with a positive outcome then I will agree with the Turkish army withdrawing from Cyprus .

by **Nikitas** » Fri Jan 01, 2016 11:19 am

England, Scotland and Wales come to mind. The former Yugoslavia is free of foreign armies now, the Russiand federation has diverse religious and ethnic groups, Anglo and French Canadian provinces under one roof with no foreign armies.

But as separation has been the TC goal for a couple of generations it should be given to them to the hilt. None of this open check points lark and double dipping in properties, social insurance, pensions, ID card and passports. Total separation now and be done with it. Let them enjoy Enosis with Turkey, and leave us to our Taksim.

Funny how the nationalist goals reversed themselves in such a short time.

And keep that flag on the mountain, it is useful as the only really truthful statement ever made by the TC community.