Cyprus-Forum.com

[Robin Hood]

LR:

I'm not disputing (pun! ) it but don't recall accounts of Russian interference in the EU referendum at the time. If there were then clearly they didn't reach the scandal proportions of the US. Furthermore, in my many exchanges with Remainers that aspect hasn't once been raised as a mitigating factor.

There has never been any proof presented to support the accusation, although I have no doubt all Nations are engaged in this sort of date collection (espionage?) But it has been unanimously agreed that in neither case did it affect the outcome.

Despite attempts to elevate European security towards being dependent upon the EU, it's collective engagements have been disappointing. It is of course NATO that's underpinned the West in that respect, for over 70 years. For me that remains the principle concern. Trump did recently join May in reaffirming support for the organisation but of course that conflicts with his campaign rhetoric. Time, as always, will tell.

I think what Trump said was that NATO was obsolete? If you consider NATO’s function after 1945 until the end of the cold war, then surely he has to have a valid point. Was it not intended to prevent another war in Europe like the previous two?

There are quite large Russian ethnic minorities in the Baltic states (most notably Latvia). IIRC "planted" there by Stalin, in much the same way settlers have been in the north here. Primarily for the same reason. Whilst they seem to coexist peacefully with others there's always some reason or other that can be dug up to foment trouble if needed. Adoption of Russian as an official language perhaps? In the past I believe Putin has proclaimed the right to "defend" Russians everywhere. He would, I'm sure, not be averse to re-embracing those small states and (like Stalin's deal with Hitler) annexing them as part of Mother Russia. I suspect that talk of Russian tanks pouring into the likes of Poland again are for those with a vivid imagination though.

You are right, they were planted by Stalin just as the UK planted Protestants from Scotland into Northern Ireland and for the same reason, but they were not planted in Ukraine, they had lived there for generations. But that was decades ago! The USSR, a communist State, no longer exists. The Russian federation is a whole different political regime.

I would hope that if ever (a remote possibility) a right wing bunch of anarchists took over the Cypriot parliament, with the backing of a foreign power, threatened the British Bases, made it clear they supported the extermination of British residents, closed down the UKCA, shut down the Cyprus Mail and mobilised the CNG to drive the residents of Peyia into the sea ........ my hope would be that I would able to rely upon some protection from the British Forces stationed on the Island if I needed it.

IMO: I do not see Russia as a threat to anyone. Their borders are lined with troops and weapons of the military of NATO nations whose borders are thousands of miles away and yet they are declared ‘threatening’ because they mobilise their own , inside their OWN borders to counter an obvious threat to them. I don’t think Russia has any intention of trying to annex any other country in the region. That is as much of a fallacy as ‘....Russian tanks pouring into Poland!’ You must remember the US’s horrified response to having Russian missiles in Cuba?

( If you wish to bring up Georgia and Ukraine ... let’s make that a new thread? It could be an interesting exchange of views. )

If there were an appetite to test Article 5 (and Personally I believe that to be very unlikely) then it would come in the Baltic. To not commit to the Article wholeheartedly would of course precipitate the end of NATO at a stroke. A paper Tiger. Tempting I imagine but pretty risky. Can't see it coming about myself but it could depend - like so much - on what Donald does next.

I don’t think Trumps policies suggested that he would abandon NATO or its member Nations, he suggested changes which are well overdue, but his approach to Russia to talk out differences rather than weaponise them, is a step in the right direction that will eliminate the likely hood of any military engagements on Europe’s Eastern borders ..... or Russia’s Western borders as well as in other geographical locations.

[Zenon33]

If this all continues, I would suggest everyone look at the the defence Expenditures of Japan, Australia, France, Saudi Arabia and UK.

They are your guage to peace and stability.

call it "The Peace and Stability Index".

If you see japan and Australia dramatically increase Defence Expenditure, then that's an indication that all is not well.

And hate to tell everyone, but both Japan and Australia have already moved on this.

Saudi Arabia promotes terrorism.
Our guage to peace?.

[Paphitis]

Labour MP claims it's 'highly probable' Russia interfered with Brexit referendum

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 72706.html

Of course, the Yanks meddle in everyone’s internal affairs, too. Every country does to some extent. International politics is a dirty business and it is all about self-interest.

Thanks for the link. It does of course though reflect just one man's speculative view and is littered with words such as "Likely" etc. Had, as in the US, it been echoed by the security services then I would tend to give it more credence.

I am hopefully not being naive and appreciate the efforts and resources nations are devoting to the area of cyber-warfare nowadays. I read a report quite some time ago on Chinese efforts and capabilities which was pretty sobering.

I would think that countries run by dictatorships are far less vulnerable to the fallout from the sort of infringements that allegedly took place within the US Democrats organisation. If true, didn't it at the end of the day just involve making public some if the shenanigans which took place, the like of the Bernie Sanders stitch up? Hardly earth shattering stuff, it seems to me.

In addition, British MI5 Chief has stated explicitly that Russia is an increasing threat to the UK.

Russia poses an increasing threat to the UK and is using all the powers at its disposal to push its policies abroad, Director General of MI5 Andrew Parker told the Guardian.
“It [Russia] is using its whole range of state organs and powers to push its foreign policy abroad in increasingly aggressive ways – involving propaganda, espionage, subversion and cyber-attacks. Russia is at work across Europe and in the UK today. It is MI5’s job to get in the way of that,” Parker said in the first interview by an incumbent chief since the service was founded over 100 years ago.

He added that Russia still has spies on the ground in the UK, but due to the development of cyberwarfare, ways and methods have been changing. Among the alleged targets he indicated, are military secrets, industrial projects, economic information and government and foreign policy.

“Russia increasingly seems to define itself by opposition to the West and seems to act accordingly,” Parker said.

“You can see that on the ground with Russia’s activities in Ukraine and Syria. But there is high-volume activity out of sight with the cyber-threat. Russia has been a covert threat for decades. What’s different these days is that there are more and more methods available,” he added.

This month, the UK officials aren’t the only ones poking and prodding Russia cyberwar-wise: about a fortnight ago, US intelligence officials told NBC that the Obama administration was contemplating an unprecedented cyber “clandestine” action against Russia in retaliation for alleged Russian interference in the American presidential election.

Anti-Russia rhetoric in Britain has been worsening ever since before Brexit. In February, the UK’s top brass penned a letter for the Stay campaign waning that leaving the EU would see an increase of Islamic State attacks and the Russian threat, while Defence Secretary Michael Fallon insisted Brexit was “in Russia's interests.”

After the Brexit vote, tensions were pushed to a new level: amidst Russia’s campaign in Syria, the British Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson slammed Moscow as a “puppeteer” of the Assad regime and urged for protests outside the Russian embassy in London. This came on the heels of US Secretary of State John Kerry accusing Russia and Syria of committing daily “crimes against humanity” in Aleppo.

This from the Pootin mouthpiece which denies the accusations.

https://www.rt.com/uk/364934-mi5-russia-threat-cyber/

And here is the link to the real article from The Guardian which they quoted from before adding their propaganda.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... SApp_Other

[Paphitis]

If this all continues, I would suggest everyone look at the the defence Expenditures of Japan, Australia, France, Saudi Arabia and UK.

They are your guage to peace and stability.

call it "The Peace and Stability Index".

If you see japan and Australia dramatically increase Defence Expenditure, then that's an indication that all is not well.

And hate to tell everyone, but both Japan and Australia have already moved on this.

Saudi Arabia promotes terrorism.
Our guage to peace?.

Not true.

They don't want a war either, and are only reacting to what they perceive to be terrorism from Iran.

They got too much to lose.

It's defence expenditure is a gauge in my opinion, of them getting worried about world developments and they are not the only country I mentioned.

And they have valid concerns pertaining to Iran.

Just like other countries could have valid concerns whether that be China (to some extent), North Korea, Turkey or Russia itself.

out of all of them, China is the least worry.

the real big threats now are Russia, Iran and Turkey.

the biggest threat of all, is north korea as they are unpredictable. hence South Korea, Japan and Australia shitting themselves because of all the uncertainty.

[Tim Drayton]

There are reports of a five-year-old boy being handcuffed at an American airport for being in breach of the 'pussy grabber''s new travel ban. Did the Nazis ever handcuff small children, I wonder? I predict that some people are going to have a harder and harder time defending the indefensible.

[Tim Drayton]

The White House has said a five-year-old boy was detained for more than four hours and reportedly handcuffed at an airport because he posed a “security risk”.

The boy, reportedly a US citizen with an Iranian mother, was one of more than 100 people detained following President Donald Trump’s immigration order.
In a press briefing, Mr Trump’s press secretary Sean Spicer was unrepentant about the incident.

He said: “To assume that just because of someone’s age and gender that they don’t pose a threat would be misguided and wrong.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 54521.html

Can any of you Trump apologists out there explain what the problem is with a child who is an American citizen entering the USA? Is it because his mother is Iranian? If so, how is that not racism? If not, what is the reason?

[Robin Hood]

If Trump continues on his current course sooner or later he will come up against the law in the form of the Supreme Court, and he can't sack them all. Sooner or later even the American fascists and rednecks who voted for him will realise that they have an out and out nutter in the White House. Chances are he will end up in an asylum, be impeached or shot. I give him a year or less.

With all due respect ....... you echo the descriptions used by the losers of both the Brexit vote and the US Presidential elections. You pour scorn on and belittle those that did not vote the way you believed to be 'The Right Way'! If the minorities votes were 'the right way' ........ why are they a minority? You are suggesting that the majority are intellectually inferior to the minority?

What I see on TV seems to refute that!

No need for the "with all due respect" crap. I'm sure that many who voted for Brexit believed they made informed and rational decisions and I respect that view but the result was swung by the vote of ignorant racists as was the election in America. We'll just have to wait and see if Trump lasts the course, from what I have seen on TV he has had to back pedal already.

I respected your opinion but did not agree with it. I tried to demonstrate that ...... next time I won't bother when replying to your crap!!

[Jerry]

If Trump continues on his current course sooner or later he will come up against the law in the form of the Supreme Court, and he can't sack them all. Sooner or later even the American fascists and rednecks who voted for him will realise that they have an out and out nutter in the White House. Chances are he will end up in an asylum, be impeached or shot. I give him a year or less.

With all due respect ....... you echo the descriptions used by the losers of both the Brexit vote and the US Presidential elections. You pour scorn on and belittle those that did not vote the way you believed to be 'The Right Way'! If the minorities votes were 'the right way' ........ why are they a minority? You are suggesting that the majority are intellectually inferior to the minority?

What I see on TV seems to refute that!

No need for the "with all due respect" crap. I'm sure that many who voted for Brexit believed they made informed and rational decisions and I respect that view but the result was swung by the vote of ignorant racists as was the election in America. We'll just have to wait and see if Trump lasts the course, from what I have seen on TV he has had to back pedal already.

I respected your opinion but did not agree with it. I tried to demonstrate that ...... next time I won't bother when replying to your crap!!

People who preface their view as you did rarely mean it, they are simply being condescending. Suggesting I pour scorn and belittle others is hardly a respectful response but yes, do me a favour and don't respond to what you call my "crap".

[Robin Hood]

Paphitis:

the real big threats now are Russia, Iran and Turkey.

Really?

Russia? – How?

Example: Chechnya? .... don’t think so! They responded to an Islamic incursion and an attempt to make Chechnyia an Islamic State. The Russians responded in the same way as they and the US Coalition responded in Syria and Iraq.

Example: Georgia?.... don’t think so! Both UN and EU investigations blamed Georgia 100% for starting the brief war by attacking South Ossetia but said the Russian response was considered by both as ‘disproportionate’. The same claim was directed at Georgia in their attack on Sth. Ossetia.

Example: Ukraine ? .... don’t think so! The Russians once again responded when a government bought into power by a US instigated coup became a threat to their national security. Sevastopol ? I am sure the US in response to a similar threat to their base in Bahrain, would react in the same way.

Example: Russia invaded Crimea? .... don’t think so! Wrong again, they were already there by legal agreement with the elected government. Their ‘crime’ was in using those forces to prevent the destruction of and the slaughter of the Crimean’s who then voted for independence by a majority referendum. They then asked Russia to let them return to ‘Mother Russia’ by an overwhelming majority. Self determination? What the Russians did in Crimea with the support of the people was what the US Coalition would liked to have achieved (or similar) in Syria .... but Russia managed to do it with the backing of the people and without the usual US Coalition death and destruction.

Example: Russia has an expansionist policy? ... don’t think so! The country is the largest on earth and spans twelve time zones; has massive natural resources, much of it untapped ..... why would Russia need to expand and where?

Example: They have nuclear weapons? YES!

Iran? – How?

Example: there isn’t one! Iran has not attacked any other country for about 300 years!

Example: They are a nuclear threat? .... don’t think so? US/EU/US/UN intelligence sources say Iran does not have the capacity to build nuclear weapons. If they did change their mind it would take then several years and would be immediately obvious to the Western powers.

Example: They have broken the recent agreement with the US/UN? .... don’t think so! The UN and all the enforcing powers, confirm full compliance. It is the US that now wants to breach the agreement!

Example: Khomeini said they would destroy Israel? .... don’t think so! Firstly he didn’t say that and even if he did, how? Israel has the worlds third largest nuclear arsenal and they can’t use that in the local ME area as it would destroy Israel, so who will THEY attack? Anybody taking bets on Iran?

Example: They support terrorism? ... don't think so! They support Hezbollah which is not a terrorist group and was formed by Lebanon and Iran as a defence force to counter Israeli aggression.

Turkey? – How?

Well .... I believe they are a NATO member still so presumably we can rely on NATO to keep their members under control. They are working with Russia in Syria ..... to destroy Daesh and the on destroying the Kurds in their spare time. So, no real danger from Turkey then ..... they step out of line then either Russia or NATO (US) will make sure they return to the fold.

So ..... that selection of threats was all a bit of a damp squib.

But you were very selective! Why do you not consider Israel, Pakistan, China, India, the USA and of course NATO as threats to peace!

North Korea, as a threat? If the US cannot defend itself from Nth. Korea then surely they stand absolutely no chance against Russia or China? So .... not really much of a threat ....... more of a nuisance if they happen to hit US bases in Australia!

[Robin Hood]

Jerry:

Use disrespectful comment like ‘crap’ as a response then don’t get indignant and expect the consideration in return.

You said “...... the American fascists and rednecks who voted for him will realise that they have an out and out nutter in the White House.”

Your seemingly ill informed opinion? Maybe you consider Madonna and some of her theatrical companions as a better example of the US intelligencia ?