Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

Don't forget that they interfered in the British EU referendum, too. Putin wants to see the EU disintegrate because he feels he has irredentist territorial claims in Europe. He was stationed in East Germany for a long time, after all. It's a quesion of cui bono - I only see one party that has anything to gain.

Yes tim, I also appreciate the threat to EU Countries and NATO.

And it is especially dangerous now because USA might be AWOL.

Europe needs to stand very firm and united. France and Britain (Germany too) will need to pick up the slack until Trump shows signs of common sense.

[Jerry]

If Trump continues on his current course sooner or later he will come up against the law in the form of the Supreme Court, and he can't sack them all. Sooner or later even the American fascists and rednecks who voted for him will realise that they have an out and out nutter in the White House. Chances are he will end up in an asylum, be impeached or shot. I give him a year or less.

With all due respect ....... you echo the descriptions used by the losers of both the Brexit vote and the US Presidential elections. You pour scorn on and belittle those that did not vote the way you believed to be 'The Right Way'! If the minorities votes were 'the right way' ........ why are they a minority? You are suggesting that the majority are intellectually inferior to the minority?

What I see on TV seems to refute that!

No need for the "with all due respect" crap. I'm sure that many who voted for Brexit believed they made informed and rational decisions and I respect that view but the result was swung by the vote of ignorant racists as was the election in America. We'll just have to wait and see if Trump lasts the course, from what I have seen on TV he has had to back pedal already.

[Londonrake]

Don't forget that they interfered in the British EU referendum, too. Putin wants to see the EU disintegrate because he feels he has irredentist territorial claims in Europe. He was stationed in East Germany for a long time, after all. It's a quesion of cui bono - I only see one party that has anything to gain.

Yes tim, I also appreciate the threat to EU Countries and NATO.

And it is especially dangerous now because USA might be AWOL.

Europe needs to stand very firm and united. France and Britain (Germany too) will need to pick up the slack until Trump shows signs of common sense.

I'm not disputing (pun! ) it but don't recall accounts of Russian interference in the EU referendum at the time. If there were then clearly they didn't reach the scandal proportions of the US. Furthermore, in my many exchanges with Remainers that aspect hasn't once been raised as a mitigating factor.

Despite attempts to elevate European security towards being dependent upon the EU, it's collective engagements have been disappointing. It is of course NATO that's underpinned the West in that respect, for over 70 years. For me that remains the principle concern. Trump did recently join May in reaffirming support for the organisation but of course that conflicts with his campaign rhetoric. Time, as always, will tell.

There are quite large Russian ethnic minorities in the Baltic states (most notably Latvia). IIRC "planted" there by Stalin, in much the same way settlers have been in the north here. Primarily for the same reason. Whilst they seem to coexist peacefully with others there's always some reason or other that can be dug up to foment trouble if needed. Adoption of Russian as an official language perhaps? In the past I believe Putin has proclaimed the right to "defend" Russians everywhere. He would, I'm sure, not be averse to re-embracing those small states and (like Stalin's deal with Hitler) annexing them as part of Mother Russia. I suspect that talk of Russian tanks pouring into the likes of Poland again are for those with a vivid imagination though.

If there were an appetite to test Article 5 (and Personally I believe that to be very unlikely) then it would come in the Baltic. To not commit to the Article wholeheartedly would of course precipitate the end of NATO at a stroke. A paper Tiger. Tempting I imagine but pretty risky. Can't see it coming about myself but it could depend - like so much - on what Donald does next.

[Paphitis]

Don't forget that they interfered in the British EU referendum, too. Putin wants to see the EU disintegrate because he feels he has irredentist territorial claims in Europe. He was stationed in East Germany for a long time, after all. It's a quesion of cui bono - I only see one party that has anything to gain.

Yes tim, I also appreciate the threat to EU Countries and NATO.

And it is especially dangerous now because USA might be AWOL.

Europe needs to stand very firm and united. France and Britain (Germany too) will need to pick up the slack until Trump shows signs of common sense.

I'm not disputing (pun! ) it but don't recall accounts of Russian interference in the EU referendum at the time. If there were then clearly they didn't reach the scandal proportions of the US. Furthermore, in my many exchanges with Remainers that aspect hasn't once been raised as a mitigating factor.

Despite attempts to elevate European security as being dependent upon the EU, it's collective engagements have been disappointing. It is of course NATO that's underpinned the West in that respect, for over 70 years. For me that remains the principle concern. Trump did recently join May in reaffirming support for the organisation but of course that conflicts with his campaign rhetoric. Time, as always, will tell.

There are quite large Russian ethnic minorities in the Baltic states (most notably Latvia). IIRC "planted" there by Stalin, in much the same way settlers have been in the north here. Whilst they seem to coexist peacefully with others there's always some reason or other that can be dug up to foment trouble if needed. Adoption of Russian as an official language perhaps? In the past I believe Putin has proclaimed the right to "defend" Russians everywhere. He would, I'm sure, not be averse to re-embracing those small states and (like Stalin's deal with Hitler) annexing them as part of Mother Russia. I suspect that talk of Russian tanks pouring into the likes of Poland again are for those with a vivid imagination though.

If there were an appetite to test Article 5 (and Personally I believe that to be very unlikely) then it would come in the Baltic. To not commit to the Article wholeheartedly would of course precipitate the end of NATO at a stroke. A paper Tiger. Tempting I imagine but pretty risky. Can't see it coming about myself but it could depend - like so much - on what Donald does next.

Georgia, Latvia and Lithuania are those who should have a fair amount to be be worried about.

Let me tell you that peace and stability is not something you can afford to downplay. NATO was formed for a reason culminating from the ashes of WW2 and also the Cold War.

It is incorrect how some label NATO as an imperialist American alliance. it isn't. The NATO Charter is purely Defensive and to maintain peace and stability within Europe's borders for its member States.

The premise that NATO will attack Russia is completely incorrect.

now is completely the right time to test Article 5. Not immediately now, because pootin thinks he's got a chance to have successfully conned the POTUS and is waiting to see if his con is successful which its unlikely to be. But after that, I fear there arew many countries which have a lot to be fearful of - georgia, latvia and Lithuania would be my first picks.

Russia has expansionist desires and has teamed up with Turkey. The unholy trinity.

Greece too from Turkey. Greece is vulnerable. It's a matter of time if this environment continues. Greek sovereignty and territorial integrity has relied on its relations with USA. if that is non existent, then Turkey could do something.

Peace and stability is a very fragile thing. So fragile that even japan is panicking and even paid Trump a visit before inauguration. That's because of north Korea and also to some extent China and South China Sea.

Australia just had high level meetings with japan on how to deal with the current situation because both countries are concerned. They have for decades relied on the peace and stability from their big ally.

[Tim Drayton]

Labour MP claims it's 'highly probable' Russia interfered with Brexit referendum

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 72706.html

Of course, the Yanks meddle in everyone’s internal affairs, too. Every country does to some extent. International politics is a dirty business and it is all about self-interest.

[Paphitis]

If this all continues, I would suggest everyone look at the the defence Expenditures of Japan, Australia, France, Saudi Arabia and UK.

They are your guage to peace and stability.

call it "The Peace and Stability Index".

If you see japan and Australia dramatically increase Defence Expenditure, then that's an indication that all is not well.

And hate to tell everyone, but both Japan and Australia have already moved on this.

[Lordo]

If this all continues, I would suggest everyone look at the the defence Expenditures of Japan, Australia, France, Saudi Arabia and UK.

They are your guage to peace and stability.

call it "The Peace and Stability Index".

If you see japan and Australia dramatically increase Defence Expenditure, then that's an indication that all is not well.

And hate to tell everyone, but both Japan and Australia have already moved on this.

did trump not cancel the trade agreement recently which included australia

[Paphitis]

If this all continues, I would suggest everyone look at the the defence Expenditures of Japan, Australia, France, Saudi Arabia and UK.

They are your guage to peace and stability.

call it "The Peace and Stability Index".

If you see japan and Australia dramatically increase Defence Expenditure, then that's an indication that all is not well.

And hate to tell everyone, but both Japan and Australia have already moved on this.

did trump not cancel the trade agreement recently which included australia

It cancelled the TPP which Australia and Japan were planning to ratify.

But there is still a FTA in place I think.

TPP was suppose to be a common market for a group of Asia Pacific Countries. Bit like the EU to an extent. Japan and Australia still want to press on with it but it is hard to see how when the USA is out. That is a huge market opting out.

[Londonrake]

Labour MP claims it's 'highly probable' Russia interfered with Brexit referendum

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 72706.html

Of course, the Yanks meddle in everyone’s internal affairs, too. Every country does to some extent. International politics is a dirty business and it is all about self-interest.

Thanks for the link. It does of course though reflect just one man's speculative view and is littered with words such as "Likely" etc. Had, as in the US, it been echoed by the security services then I would tend to give it more credence.

I am hopefully not being naive and appreciate the efforts and resources nations are devoting to the area of cyber-warfare nowadays. I read a report quite some time ago on Chinese efforts and capabilities which was pretty sobering.

I would think that countries run by dictatorships are far less vulnerable to the fallout from the sort of infringements that allegedly took place within the US Democrats organisation. If true, didn't it at the end of the day just involve making public some if the shenanigans which took place, the like of the Bernie Sanders stitch up? Hardly earth shattering stuff, it seems to me.

[Paphitis]

Labour MP claims it's 'highly probable' Russia interfered with Brexit referendum

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 72706.html

Of course, the Yanks meddle in everyone’s internal affairs, too. Every country does to some extent. International politics is a dirty business and it is all about self-interest.

Thanks for the link. It does of course though reflect just one man's speculative view and is littered with words such as "Likely" etc. Had, as in the US, it been echoed by the security services then I would tend to give it more credence.

I am hopefully not being naive and appreciate the efforts and resources nations are devoting to the area of cyber-warfare nowadays. I read a report quite some time ago on Chinese efforts and capabilities which was pretty sobering.

I would think that countries run by dictatorships are far less vulnerable to the fallout from the sort of infringements that allegedly took place within the US Democrats organisation. If true, didn't it at the end of the day just involve making public some if the shenanigans which took place, the like of the Bernie Sanders stitch up? Hardly earth shattering stuff, it seems to me.

The US Security Services had no choice because a lot at stake. also all of Hillary's Emails were being leaked and Trump at one point was encouraging Pootin to keep doing whatever he was doing which is a completely irresponsible act which compromised the entire democratic process and probably did sway many votes. So even Trump was convinced that pootin was playing silly buggers because he was encouraging the behavior because he was benefiting from the leaks.

How can you assert that they didn't on the basis the UK Authorities kept quiet about it? I fully appreciate that pootin has a lot to gain from BREXIT.

Cyber warfare is the next big thing. The UK authorities are as vulnerable to it as any other country. For instance, the buggers have in the past been able to hack into electrical grids in USA and Australia and just shut entire power grids down just for the hell of it. Countries didn't fully appreciate the risks just 10 years ago but are now coming to the realization that all this stuff is going on so they are only just beginning to take measures. even North Korea hacked into Sony at one point because they made a Movie about their supreme leader.

The leaks are earth shattering. In election campaigns, there are always shenanigans. it's a very dirty game. Revealing shenanigans should only be done by US Law Enforcement. It's not anyone else's place to do that even if Clinton was corrupt. All this was an attempt to sway the vote and compromise the Clinton campaign and it was highly successful because Hillary was unable to recover fully from the scandal and then there were also allegations that she used Internet based Emails rather than more secure US government servers. Even Government servers are not fully secure.

fact of the matter is this. The Russians have the capability to hack Trump's campaign. I have no doubt they did do this as well and that they have sensitive documents as do the Americans about pootin. But the Russians decided not to reveal these documents because trump was their poster boy - again because they believe they can destabilize the USA and its allies.

The US Security Agencies have also warned trump that pootin has sensitive information concerning him and that this information can be held against him as leverage. Security Agencies vet people in these ways all the time even Government Officials and military personnel.

but the Donald has chosen not to heed the warnings because Pootin couldn't possibly have any dirt on trump. no no, trumpey is such a saint that no one can have dirt on him. he is whiter than white. And pigs can fly too!