Cyprus-Forum.com

[Lordo]

so while gcs accept that in day one of the agreement the tcs can have majority property and population in their state, it must not be set in stone. at some point in the future gcs must be allowed to have majority property and population in the tc state. what ever it is they are smoking i would like some as well.

http://in-cyprus.com/bizonality-still-a-sticky-question-in-the-cyprus-talks/

[repulsewarrior]

What is a "Turk"? What has "Turkishness" got to do with Cypriots having representation based on Universal Principals, the self-representation which demonstrates the will of Cypriots, as Cypriots?

In my Cyprus Bizonal is not that hard to understand. Regardless of how you divide Cyprus as parts, One Government represents us as Cypriots. One Country exists as a State, and that is the Republic of Cyprus. Under it, all its Citizens are equal, without any discrimination or distinction additionally needed.

Indeed, Cypriot Constituencies exist, and they can be identified by the living relics, language, communities and homes, these Constituents care for till today. As Cypriots, if we are prepared to consider that Cyprus has an Ethnos, (more than "being" mostly Greek,) Cypriots should also be prepared to apply themselves accordingly with Constitutional Reform respecting the nature of this Heritance. If we are prepared to consider that a "Turkish Constituency" should exist, should there be Constituencies for the Maronite, Latin, and Armenian populations which have the same struggle, in terms of sustaining their distinctiveness, as Cypriots. Why not? Why not a Greek Constituency while we're at it? Why not a set of Cypriot Constituencies, at another level of government?

Where in this demand, by or for a Turkish Constituency, is there an effort to represent the principals that clearly indicate an interest in the affairs of Cypriots as a whole? Why are "their" demands so different to my own for example, if "they" care for Cyprus? How are "they" equal to the Republic? They, the occupation's regime, concern themselves with "Turkishness" (and only "Turks" to them are acceptable); there, anyone who dares to fly the Flag of Cyprus risks a great deal of controversy, although just recently, legally, it has been ruled that people have the right to do so.

...in short, such a demand, for "Turks" or "Turkishness", as it is, is asking for a lot, and folly, from a position where (illegally) "they" have much more than they should, "they" seek to care only for themselves, and where "they" "deserve" (and because they have little to offer) very, very, little.

...solution is easy, ask for 7 percent (almost too hard to refuse), and be willing to accept (far) less.

...as for the rest of us, Turcophone, Grecophone, and Cypriot, dividing Cyprus, to "give" some of it away to "someone" who sees us as an "other", seems far fetched, unjust, and a step backwards for Humanity, not just for Cypriots.

http://in-cyprus.com/bizonality-still-a ... rus-talks/

...if a gc, as you call them speaks Turkish, comes to the northern part of the island with the intention to make something for his family, you would refuse him, he could not buy or build a house, because he is not "Turkish"? That you would find it acceptable that if he sent his children to public schools they would not be as welcome? Or that if he worked hard, was successful and pay taxes, that his vote is worth less?

[Lordo]

in the core of the agreement signed so far is political equality between the two federal states and one state must try to control the other. if there is no limits to who can live where how exactly are you going to stop one the gc state trying to control the tcs state. you can go on about freedom till the cows come home. the only total freedom you have is under jungle rule. we aint havin that.

[DrCyprus]

in the core of the agreement signed so far is political equality between the two federal states and one state must try to control the other. if there is no limits to who can live where how exactly are you going to stop one the gc state trying to control the tcs state. you can go on about freedom till the cows come home. the only total freedom you have is under jungle rule. we aint havin that.

There is no need for a TC state to exist.

[Lordo]

read this boy and wise up. you is talking shit.

1. The status quo is unacceptable and its prolongation will have negative consequences for the Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots. The leaders affirmed that a settlement would have a positive impact on the entire region, while first and foremost benefiting Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots, respecting democratic principles, human rights and fundamental freedoms, as well as each other's distinct identity and integrity and ensuring their common future in a united Cyprus within the European Union.
2. The leaders expressed their determination to resume structured negotiations in a results-oriented manner. All unresolved core issues will be on the table, and will be discussed interdependently. The leaders will aim to reach a settlement as soon as possible, and hold separate simultaneous referenda thereafter.
3. The settlement will be based on a bi-communal, bi-zonal federation with political equality, as set out in the relevant Security Council Resolutions and the High Level Agreements. The united Cyprus, as a member of the United Nations and of the European Union, shall have a single international legal personality and a single sovereignty, which is defined as the sovereignty which is enjoyed by all member States of the United Nations under the UN Charter and which emanates equally from Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots. There will be a single united Cyprus citizenship, regulated by federal law. All citizens of the united Cyprus shall also be citizens of either the Greek-Cypriot constituent state or the Turkish-Cypriot constituent state. This status shall be internal and shall complement, and not substitute in any way, the united Cyprus citizenship.
The powers of the federal government, and like matters that are clearly incidental to its specified powers, will be assigned by the constitution. The Federal constitution will also provide for the residual powers to be exercised by the constituent states. The constituent states will exercise fully and irrevocably all their powers, free from encroachment by the federal government. The federal laws will not encroach upon constituent state laws, within the constituent states' area of competences, and the constituent states' laws will not encroach upon the federal laws within the federal government's competences. Any dispute in respect thereof will be adjudicated finally by the Federal Supreme Court. Neither side may claim authority or jurisdiction over the other.
4. The united Cyprus federation shall result from the settlement following the settlement's approval by separate simultaneous referenda. The Federal constitution shall prescribe that the united Cyprus federation shall be composed of two constituent states of equal status. The bi-zonal, bi-communal nature of the federation and the principles upon which the EU is founded will be safeguarded and respected throughout the island. The Federal constitution shall be the supreme law of the land and will be binding on all the federation's authorities and on the constituent states. Union in whole or in part with any other country or any form of partition or secession or any other unilateral change to the state of affairs will be prohibited.
5. The negotiations are based on the principle that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
6. The appointed representatives are fully empowered to discuss any issue at any time and should enjoy parallel access to all stakeholders and interested parties in the process, as needed. The leaders of the two communities will meet as often as needed. They retain the ultimate decision making power. Only an agreement freely reached by the leaders may be put to separate simultaneous referenda. Any kind of arbitration is excluded.
7. The sides will seek to create a positive atmosphere to ensure the talks succeed. They commit to avoiding blame games or other negative public comments on the negotiations. They also commit to efforts to implement confidence building measures that will provide a dynamic impetus to the prospect for a united Cyprus.

[repulsewarrior]

...as for constituencies, and dividing Cypriots into them, again i ask, as Cypriots what about the Ethnos, then? Cyprus is not "Turkish", and, not "Turkish" (read : "Greek").

[repulsewarrior]

in the core of the agreement signed so far is political equality between the two federal states and one state must try to control the other. if there is no limits to who can live where how exactly are you going to stop one the gc state trying to control the tcs state. you can go on about freedom till the cows come home. the only total freedom you have is under jungle rule. we aint havin that.

...like i said. "You"/you want somewhere "Turkish", exclusively "Turkish", ask for something less than 12%, and be prepared to accept something even less.

[repulsewarrior]

...and there will still be a Federal Government, superior to the Constituent states (how ever many there might be).

...let's not forget that a BBF has something more than two involved.

All of us will identify ourselves as Cypriots, represented as such by the Federal Government. Each with an identical vote, as equals, identified as Cypriots, without further distinction or discrimination, united in our betterment and as the stewards of the island and Sovereign as such. Constituencies will allow for Citizens a choice, as to their identity as Persons, by where they live. Such representation, at another level of Government will offer to Citizens beyond Freedom, Liberty, in that these National Assemblies allow for taxes to be more closely managed by the taxpayer themselves. In any case, the Agreement as it stands is for two levels of government, and between the two, there are at least three governing bodies, where one of the two is superior to the rest, in that it represents the whole as the whole. Can you dig it?

[Lordo]

now look here rw, are you so simple as to expect to exchange 1 donum of lefkosha or larnaka or limasol or baf lands with 1 donum of digomo land. are you on some pills. just heard through the grapevine that anastasiades has asked for the same plan as 2004 for territory. what does that say to you? gcs were stupid to refuse the plan in 2004. now thats an unavoidable fact.

[repulsewarrior]

...exchange?