Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

Arhidia ...Pafitika

[cypriotnado]

A dreadful mistake by Turkey in shooting down the Russian jet.
Already repercussions are surfacing with Russia imposing severe restrictions on Turkish imports into Russia whilst advising its people not to visit Russia, over 4 million Russians visit Turkey annually .
" For many years, millions of Russian tourists have been the primary source of tourism revenue for Turkey. In 2014 alone, 4.48 million Russian tourists visited Turkey, bringing in revenue of nearly $4 billion, official figures showed. Turkey hosts some 40 million tourists who generate $34.3 billion in revenue every year."
http://www.todayszaman.com/business_tur ... 05178.html

" Russia raiding Turkish firms and sending imports back "
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/11/r ... 50172.html

Turkey's exports to Russia amounted to
$5.9 billion or 3.8% of its overall exports.

1. Vehicles: $646.8 million
2. Fruits, nuts: $622.9 million
3. Machines, engines, pumps: $577.9 million
4. Vegetables: $385 million
5. Electronic equipment: $329.7 million
6. Plastics: $307.4 million
7. Knitted or crocheted fabric: $230.6 million
8. Manmade filaments: $177.7 million
9. Knit or crochet clothing: $147.7 million
10. Iron or steel products: $136.9 million

A restriction on imports or even a total ban of Turkish imports would have serious economic affects on Turkish industry.

Was it worth it for a 10 or so second incursion, according to Turkey.

Knitted and crochet clothing is somthing we all need I am surprised how much of it the Natasha's buy!

[DT.]

The reasons for firing on the Russian aircraft are pretty simple and obvious. Turkey requires a satellite state in Syria that will thwart any creation of a syro-Kurdish state. In that light this is the reason that anti-ISIS troops are fired upon by Turkey and why Turkey keeps feeding ISIS with petrol exports into Turkey.

The Russian involvement was a threat to this strategy and Turkey needed to do something to stop the Russians and Americans talking together and tipping the balance towards an Assad appointed government to follow.

Turkey fired because the Russians and the Americans would see eye to eye soon. This had to be stopped.

[Lordo]

the whole point of starting the fight in syria was to remove assad. this was the requirement of israel.
that policy has not changed.

[DrCyprus]

the whole point of starting the fight in syria was to remove assad. this was the requirement of israel.
that policy has not changed.

The Lordo squad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXp5WtwcKwk

[Paphitis]

Arhidia ...Pafitika

You not only don't have any Pafian Bollocks, but I even doing you're a Paphian! End of.

[Paphitis]

The reasons for firing on the Russian aircraft are pretty simple and obvious. Turkey requires a satellite state in Syria that will thwart any creation of a syro-Kurdish state. In that light this is the reason that anti-ISIS troops are fired upon by Turkey and why Turkey keeps feeding ISIS with petrol exports into Turkey.

The Russian involvement was a threat to this strategy and Turkey needed to do something to stop the Russians and Americans talking together and tipping the balance towards an Assad appointed government to follow.

Turkey fired because the Russians and the Americans would see eye to eye soon. This had to be stopped.

It's unlikely it would have gone that far. I don't think the coalition wants to budge on the removal of Assad!

Some countries in the coalition suggested it but within 24 hours they made an about face, probably after they got a right royal bollocking, so I think that is non negotiable.

There could have been cooperation on the removal on DAESH but even that scenario is far fetched at the moment.

[kurupetos]

shironofski speaks perfet terggish.

[Kikapu]

Turkey shooting down the Russian jet is all beginning to make sense now.

I'll give you my analysis when I have time. All I can say right now is, Turkey took the bait and fell into the long awaited American's trap!

Here is my take on the shooting down of the Russian jet by Turkey.

I do believe it was a deliberate act by Turkey to shoot down the jet, almost laying and waiting for the jet, on the orders from the USA. Turks only saw the beneficial side of shooting the jet down by hoping to stop the Russians bombing Turkey's terrorist friends on the ground, along the Syrian-Turkish border. The Turks thought all they had to do was to produce some doctored radio recording about giving the Russian jets amble warnings to clear the area and all will be forgiven and forgotten, all the while when the Russian jets were still in Syrian airspace. The fact that there was no response from the Russian pilots on those recordings makes the recordings fake. Turkey claimed that the Russian jets were in it's airspace for 17 seconds. If true, so the fukcing what? Turkey has never claimed that the jet was shot in the Turkish airspace, therefore, the jet had to have been shot over Syrian airspace, which then makes Turkey taking an illegal action against the Russian jet. No wonder Putin is pissed off at Erdogan, specially if Erdogan assured Putin a week earlier at G20 that the Russian jets in the area would be safe. Putin's statement that "Turkey stabbed them in the back" leads me to believe that Erdogan lied to Putin. Airspace violations are generally handle with much greater care and procedures, including contact with the violating aircraft followed by instructions for them to obey, visual confirmation who the offenders are and so on.

So where do the Americans come into the picture you may ask? The Americans were getting annoyed by Erdogan bombing the PKK and even perhaps the YPG under the guise of bombing the ISIL, the same ISIL terrorist Turkey has been in bed with for years, or perhaps the YPG told the Americans that if the USA can't stop the Turks from bombing their PKK brothers, that they would stop fighting the ISIS on behalf of the Americans, so the Americans set Turkey up to shoot down the Russian jet, knowing full well that the Russian will be pissed off big time and take measures to stop the Turks operating in the Syrian airspace. The Americans were hoping perhaps that the Russian pilots would be safe upon parachuting, which they were not of course, even being helpless in the air floating back to earth. That's exactly what has happened. Turks will not dare to enter the Syrian airspace to bomb anyone now that the Russians have installed their S-400's and have made the Turkish jets their target. No wonder Turkey announced that their jets will not be entering Syrian airspace, because they know that NATO will not help them if their jets are targeted over the Syrian airspace. Erdogan fell into the American's trap by shooting down the Russian jet and is now crying like a baby that he want to meet with Putin.

Americans have been trying for the last few years to get Turkey into Syria to start the destruction of Turkey, but Turkey never took the bait, but finally, they now did and will pay through the nose. Funny thing is, Turkey has been asking for a "No Fly Zone" along their border with Syria for the last few years. Well, they have finally go it, except, it is their jets which won't be able to fly in these zones. Always be careful what you ask for, because you might not like it if you get it. More crying by Erdogan over not being able to use the Syrian airspace. Now the Kurds in Syria will be able to set up their state and Turkey won't be able to anything about it. This will eventually lead to Turkey's break-up, which will be a good thing for all concerned, including for the Turks. Peace at last in Turkey once the dust settles after it's break-up. As for Cyprus negotiations after the Russian jet shooting, I believe the GCs will not want to have a settlement at this point in time, not when Turkey's ass in the fire with the Russians. They too will want to wait for the dust to settle before going forward with any settelemt with the TCs.

[Paphitis]

Turkey shooting down the Russian jet is all beginning to make sense now.

I'll give you my analysis when I have time. All I can say right now is, Turkey took the bait and fell into the long awaited American's trap!

Here is my take on the shooting down of the Russian jet by Turkey.

I do believe it was a deliberate act by Turkey to shoot down the jet, almost laying and waiting for the jet, on the orders from the USA. Turks only saw the beneficial side of shooting the jet down by hoping to stop the Russians bombing Turkey's terrorist friends on the ground, along the Syrian-Turkish border. The Turks thought all they had to do was to produce some doctored radio recording about giving the Russian jets amble warnings to clear the area and all will be forgiven and forgotten, all the while when the Russian jets were still in Syrian airspace. The fact that there was no response from the Russian pilots on those recordings makes the recordings fake. Turkey claimed that the Russian jets were in it's airspace for 17 seconds. If true, so the fukcing what? Turkey has never claimed that the jet was shot in the Turkish airspace, therefore, the jet had to have been shot over Syrian airspace, which then makes Turkey taking an illegal action against the Russian jet. No wonder Putin is pissed off at Erdogan, specially if Erdogan assured Putin a week earlier at G20 that the Russian jets in the area would be safe. Putin's statement that "Turkey stabbed them in the back" leads me to believe that Erdogan lied to Putin. Airspace violations are generally handle with much greater care and procedures, including contact with the violating aircraft followed by instructions for them to obey, visual confirmation who the offenders are and so on.

So where do the Americans come into the picture you may ask? The Americans were getting annoyed by Erdogan bombing the PKK and even perhaps the YPG under the guise of bombing the ISIL, the same ISIL terrorist Turkey has been in bed with for years, or perhaps the YPG told the Americans that if the USA can't stop the Turks from bombing their PKK brothers, that they would stop fighting the ISIS on behalf of the Americans, so the Americans set Turkey up to shoot down the Russian jet, knowing full well that the Russian will be pissed off big time and take measures to stop the Turks operating in the Syrian airspace. The Americans were hoping perhaps that the Russian pilots would be safe upon parachuting, which they were not of course, even being helpless in the air floating back to earth. That's exactly what has happened. Turks will not dare to enter the Syrian airspace to bomb anyone now that the Russians have installed their S-400's and have made the Turkish jets their target. No wonder Turkey announced that their jets will not be entering Syrian airspace, because they know that NATO will not help them if their jets are targeted over the Syrian airspace. Erdogan fell into the American's trap by shooting down the Russian jet and is now crying like a baby that he want to meet with Putin.

Americans have been trying for the last few years to get Turkey into Syria to start the destruction of Turkey, but Turkey never took the bait, but finally, they now did and will pay through the nose. Funny thing is, Turkey has been asking for a "No Fly Zone" along their border with Syria for the last few years. Well, they have finally go it, except, it is their jets which won't be able to fly in these zones. Always be careful what you ask for, because you might not like it if you get it. More crying by Erdogan over not being able to use the Syrian airspace. Now the Kurds in Syria will be able to set up their state and Turkey won't be able to anything about it. This will eventually lead to Turkey's break-up, which will be a good thing for all concerned, including for the Turks. Peace at last in Turkey once the dust settles after it's break-up. As for Cyprus negotiations after the Russian jet shooting, I believe the GCs will not want to have a settlement at this point in time, not when Turkey's ass in the fire with the Russians. They too will want to wait for the dust to settle before going forward with any settelemt with the TCs.

Kikapu, I hope your not classifying the Turkmen as terrorists as well as all the other opposition forces in Syria?

There needs to be some distinction because there are many groups which have never engaged in any form of terrorism and some which are just anti Assad revolutionaries.

Just on your other points. Turkey's action was not illegal and it could very well have been shot down in Turkish airspace. These things are doing over 10nms a minute. What Turkey has is evidence that the aircraft violated its airspace and so it was shot down. A completely reasonable action. Imagine an American aircraft violating Russian airspace or a foreign aircraft entering Israeli Airspace.

Turkey really doesn't participate in the coalition effort against DAESH and it doesn't exactly see eye to eye with us either. They don't even allow us to use their bases and this IS a black mark against them which we won't easily forget. They have also attacked the YPG and Peshmerga which are our allies.

So all is not well but they are a NATO member and they have shot down a Russian aircraft and that was very timely and it is not unlikely that the Americans were not involved in some way.

Think about it. Turkey had an opportunity to do it legally with minimum risk of a wider war between Russia and the Coalition or NATO. If we did it, it would be illegal action and who knows what would happen. Russians presented the Americans an opportunity and probably told the Turks to do it.

As for the S400s, that is no reason for any of our jets not to fly. The coalition is flying every day without giving a flying fuck because we know they wouldn't DARE and if they did, Russia will have no S400s left in Syria.