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Cynical Engineering.

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Re: Cynical Engineering.

Postby erolz66 » Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:55 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:No one 'said' or 'suggested' anything, as you hoped!


The exact quote including the part you chose to omit is

5. The High Commissioner concludes that although enosis is in some ways more attractive than the unitary state, Turkey's objections to it are so strong that it may not be a practicable solution at present. He suggests, therefore, that effort should be concentrated on easing the path to the unitary state, e.g. by providing U.N. safeguards for the minority and by giving financial and other assistance for the resettling of those Turkish Cypriots to whom Cyprus may no longer appear a tolerable home.


It is there in black and white that the section you partially quoted from was the conclusion and suggestion of the High Comissioner. Yet you claim 'no one said or suggested anything'. This just yet again shows the degree to which you will simply deny absolute objective truth and fact when it suits your need to do so. Nothing new here - it is what you have always done.

GreekIslandGirl wrote:There were a number of British government officials that contributed to the whole document! (Probably, the High Commissioner is the most important in this context.) That is NORMALLY the case for preparing policy! Then ....... Ministers are briefed!


Total fantasy made up by yourself. High Commissioners do not set POLICY. Policy is decided by the cabinet made up of senior government ministers. Subsets of the cabinet form policy making committees on different subjects. One such committee was the British Defence and Overseas Policy Committee. They will listen to the conclusions and suggestions of High Commissioners when deciding and setting policy - but to make out that such a conclusion and suggestion made by a High Commissioner and presented to the committee in the form of a brief is therefore the committees POLICY is just exactly the kind of crude gross distortion of factual reality you specialise in.

You can order the documents from the UK Ministry (National Archives of Great Britain) but doing so will not stop you from trying to push your crude gross distortions of what is contained within these documents will it.
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Re: Cynical Engineering.

Postby Lordo » Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:59 pm

and yet it was griiks who overthrew an elected government in cyprus and replaced him with a known tc murderer. it just goes to show the brits are always wrong. not to mention the 7 years of fascist dictatorship which terggy helped to removed. and do they get a thanks for removing these two fascists dictatorships, gig chance ohps i mean fat chance.
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Re: Cynical Engineering.

Postby erolz66 » Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:01 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:Here's something else interesting the above document stated, under 'British Aims for Cyprus':

...... although enosis is in some way more attractive than the unitary state, Turkey's objections to it are so strong that it may not be a practicable solution at present.


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Last edited by erolz66 on Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cynical Engineering.

Postby erolz66 » Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:05 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
6. From the defence point of view enosis, notwithstanding its obvious difficulties, has certain advantages over the unitary state. It seems more likely to achieve real stability in the island since the civil authority might be stronger and better able to check vendettas:


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Re: Cynical Engineering.

Postby erolz66 » Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:06 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
7. Even from the Turkish point of view, the practical (as opposed to the emotional) considerations favour enosis rather than the unitary state. :D

ibid


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Re: Cynical Engineering.

Postby erolz66 » Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:17 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote: Sections 5, 6, 7 and 8 put together - Who thought enosis would bring peace and stability to Cyprus in 1964?


Put together and passed through the GiG singularly polarised lens maybe.

The high commissioner concludes that although enosis is in SOME WAY more attractive (to British interests) than a unitary state


From the defence point of view enosis, NOTWITHSTANDING ITS OBVIOUS DIFFICULTIES, has CERTAIN advantages..... and the retention of our Sovereign Base Areas and other defence facilities MIGHT be easier with Cyprus as a province of (Greece)


For several reasons TURKEY could get better gurantees from Greece than she could ever get from a Makarios administration


The above is not about the best way to bring peace and stability to Cyprus. It is about , inevitably, what is considered best for British interests (and to a much smaller degree Turkish interests) with a conclusion that actually for British interests enosis has SOME potential advantages vs a unitary state and thus should not be dismissed out of hand.
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Re: Cynical Engineering.

Postby erolz66 » Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:22 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote: No, they knew that would be a problem with Turkey. The document goes on to say:

9.... A leak of pro-Greek sentiment would have dangerous consequences in Ankara. Therefore "it would be premature to give any firm indication of what sort of solution we favour".
ibid

The British knew what a nasty piece of work was Turkey ....


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Re: Cynical Engineering.

Postby insan » Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:27 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
insan wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:
8. For these reasons we hope that the possibility of achieving enosis will not be too readily set aside.


Again, the above from the same Official Committee Document of 1964, subsection, "British Aims for Cyprus".

Concept question:

Sections 5, 6, 7 and 8 put together - Who thought enosis would bring peace and stability to Cyprus in 1964?

Clue .... it begins with "B" and ends with "h". :D

Go on, Lordo, take a wild guess.


Most probably they were engineering the events of 1974 by showing you the Enosis carrot... :|


No, they knew that would be a problem with Turkey. The document goes on to say:

9.... A leak of pro-Greek sentiment would have dangerous consequences in Ankara. Therefore "it would be premature to give any firm indication of what sort of solution we favour".
ibid

The British knew what a nasty piece of work was Turkey ....


... most probably, in the mean time Turkey knew what a nasty piece of work was Britain... actually not... food for thought... but just in case, got into a mutual convergence policy with USSR(Moma, then the biggest nightmare of west) and in 1967, movers and shakers cchanged... this time it was your long-time pal showing you the partition stick together with Turkey... it should have made a shocking effect I guess because the terrorist Grivas and his Greek army had to withdrawn... and the shouts and violance for Enosis stooped until his return... anyway, it was the begining of a new phase for the solution of Cyprus problem but proved to be just another neverending limbo for Turkish Cypriots...


https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1842&dat=19671222&id=giksAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4p4FAAAAIBAJ&pg=2905,3623603&hl=tr
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Re: Cynical Engineering.

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:14 pm

Your screen capturing doesn't nullify what I said, now does it, but actually confirms how in-keeping the quotes were. :D

Great that you've posted the rest! :D :D :D :D I could only retype them out!

But .... you have left out some very important parts!

"British Aims for Cyprus"

and the fact it WAS....

Defence and Oversea Policy (Official) Committee D.O. (O) (64) 26 Brief.

A paper prepared for the Ministry of Defence!

Tel me now, were any of those quotes lies? I expect an apology ...
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Re: Cynical Engineering.

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:21 pm

Can you screen-capture some Conclusions?

Like,

14 (a) .... ... of the British Government's view on the type of solution (enosis or Greek-Cypriot dominated unitary state) which offers the best hope of meeting the real interests of all parties most directly concerned.

See ... British Government's view! :D I am waiting for that apology ....
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