Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

The language used by the Eastern Roman Empire was never called “Greek” and neither were the citizens of this empire called “Greeks”. These are contemporary labels misused and abused by modern Greece to lay claim to an old empire!

Even the word Byzantium is a modern label.

[Sotos]

The language used by the Eastern Roman Empire was never called “Greek”

What was it called?

[The subaltern]

The dear Dr. Cyprus has raised an interesting subject. The Cypriot dialect. He said that he had suffered some sort of abuse during his school days for not “speaking prober”. I never had the Dr.’s problem despite speaking dialect and neither do I know of anyone who had. Of course, there were some children who had communication problems and some class mates were taking the piss out of them. That’s a different problem altogether.

Ρε κόπανε, you have learn to speak and write English yet you were unable to learn your own language! I wonder if you have tried to ask the English to simplify their language just to make it easier for you to learn it. What are you up to Dr.? I have difficulty in making sense of your arguments. There are full of contradictions!
Your problem though is not linguistic and neither social. It is ideological. You have actually made it very clear in some of your posts.

However, the Dr. wants, in order to alleviate the problem of not “speaking prober”, to elevate the dialect into a language. And that’s something a very small group of neocypriots are advocating. The Dr. therefore is not alone. Some bright spark though posting here, has an even brighter idea; the introduction of a different language altogether, in order to replace Greek i.e. English!!! Another κόπανος.

Both suggestions though stem from the same school of thought and their purpose was and is, to undermine the identity of the GC. ( A well-known objective that has been going on, under different guises, since the English occupation of Cyprus.)

The English tried it early on. They tried to introduce English in primary schools. This was vociferously opposed and of course failed. I like to point out here, that some English, to their credit, also opposed this plan. Their argument was a very simple one: the Cypriots have a language with a very long history, which the Dr. and some others, somehow dispute or rather see it as a stumbling block in solving the occupation of Cyprus.

What they really want is a new identity; Cypriotnes, whatever that is, and language been the primary carrier of identity, becomes an obstacle to Cypriotnes. Introduce a new language and the problem will disappear or so they think. Cypriotnes will somehow become the panacea of all our ills.
In fact some TCs have jumped onto the Cypriotnes bandwagon already. They are, or so they claim, Cypriots! Not the descendants of the past oppressors of Cyprus and neither of the present occupiers and destroyers of the Cyprus culture. No! They have miraculously metamorphosed into Cypriots and by extension, the indigenous inhabitants of Cyprus. The rest of us of course become foreigners and ripe for ethnic cleansing.

Yet the Dr. has the audacity to refer to Vasilis Michaelides in support of his argument. Κόπανε! The poor man will be turning in his grave. Do you know what he was writing about in the Cypriot dialect? You have no idea. In fact is exactly the opposite you’re advocating; If you knew, you would have avoided him like ο δκιάολος το λιβάνι. Κόπανε.

BTW. Some one mentioned that language is a tool. Far from it; its a way of thinking. Try it. Think; Do you thing in a language or in something different? You think in your language. So language and thought are the two faces of the same sheet of paper. You cannot separate them. I speak Greek I therefore think in Greek. English for me IS a tool since I do not think in English. Is just a means of communicating with κόπανους.

[DrCyprus]

He said that he had suffered some sort of abuse during his school days for not “speaking prober”.

I used my personal experiences to show a way in which the Cypriot Greek language was undermined in my school days.

I never had the Dr.’s problem despite speaking dialect and neither do I know of anyone who had. Of course, there were some children who had communication problems and some class mates were taking the piss out of them. That’s a different problem altogether.

You all must have been speaking "prober".

I have difficulty in making sense of your arguments.

If you request it, I can translate them to you in Greek so you can understand them.

Your problem though is not linguistic and neither social. It is ideological. You have actually made it very clear in some of your posts.

If you are going to call me out on something you 'discovered', please quote it here so I can understand what you are talking about.

Some bright spark though posting here, has an even brighter idea; the introduction of a different language altogether, in order to replace Greek i.e. English!!! Another κόπανος.

What a κόπανος he must be!

Both suggestions though stem from the same school of thought and their purpose was and is, to undermine the identity of the GC. ( A well-known objective that has been going on, under different guises, since the English occupation of Cyprus.)

The English tried it early on. They tried to introduce English in primary schools. This was vociferously opposed and of course failed. I like to point out here, that some English, to their credit, also opposed this plan. Their argument was a very simple one: the Cypriots have a language with a very long history, which the Dr. and some others, somehow dispute or rather see it as a stumbling block in solving the occupation of Cyprus.

I celebrate the Greekness of us, the Greek Cypriots and the plurality and richness of Greek culture throughout the centuries. Lifting Greek Cypriot to a language status can only serve to indicate to every foreign element that we are Greeks with our own Greek history and a Greek language that we own, which is directly descended from Koine Greek. We are brothers to the Greeks of Greece and the Greeks of Crete and other islands and also to the Greeks who were driven out of Egypt and Syria and Asia Minor and the Black Sea and the Northern Balkans.

I never advocated anything antigreek, your accusations are simply false.

What they really want is a new identity; Cypriotnes, whatever that is, and language been the primary carrier of identity, becomes an obstacle to Cypriotnes. Introduce a new language and the problem will disappear or so they think. Cypriotnes will somehow become the panacea of all our ills.

strawman argument. Nothing to do with this thread.

Yet the Dr. has the audacity to refer to Vasilis Michaelides in support of his argument. Κόπανε! The poor man will be turning in his grave. Do you know what he was writing about in the Cypriot dialect? You have no idea. In fact is exactly the opposite you’re advocating; If you knew, you would have avoided him like ο δκιάολος το λιβάνι. Κόπανε.

If Enosis had happened, and we were part of Greece, I would still be fighting for the right to a regional Greek Cypriot language to be recognised. If I was a Cretan I would be fighting for the standardisation of a regional Cretan Greek language because Cretan also directly evolved from Koine Greek.

[DrCyprus]

The language used by the Eastern Roman Empire was never called “Greek”

What was it called?

It was called Greek.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraclius

[DrCyprus]

Answering my own question:
A dialect is a form of a language used and understood by a specific group.

With the same logic all languages are dialects because only specific groups can understand them.

However everyone who speaks a Greek dialect understands fully the official language.

Because we are taught it, and are exposed to it through TV and other media.
The status 'official' is something borne of humans and absolutely arbitrary. Standard Modern Greek didn't descend from divine providence to be spoken by the people of the Greek nation. It was the result of a bunch of Greek governments trying to decide on what was proper and in the end Δημοτική won because it was the Greek language of the people, that the people of Greece spoke. The Greek people of Cyprus speak the Greek Cypriot language and it will win.

DrCyprus claims our dialect is the real Greek and originates from ancient Greek.

I don't claim that our Greek is the 'real' Greek, but I do say that it has the right to be lifted to a language and is of equal value to the Greek culture as every other Greek language throughout the ages.

If that were so, then we in Cyprus should be able to understand Ancient Greek.
We DON'T!

All Greek languages originate from ancient Greek.
I don't think you completely understand this topic, but I appreciate your input and I encourage you to read more on how languages evolve (if you are actually interested).

I also appreciate your story with the γουβαδάκι.

[GreekIslandGirl]

...I would still be fighting for the right to a regional Greek Cypriot language to be recognised.

Fight with yourself. Everyone else recognizes the regional dialects.

[Get Real!]

Final conclusion: O sinhronos Kipreos en gia kavlies tzie gia ftimmathkies!

[Pyrpolizer]

Answering my own question:
A dialect is a form of a language used and understood by a specific group.

With the same logic all languages are dialects because only specific groups can understand them.

I said a form of A_language. We are not comparing different languages here

However everyone who speaks a Greek dialect understands fully the official language.

Because we are taught it, and are exposed to it through TV and other media.
The status 'official' is something borne of humans and absolutely arbitrary. Standard Modern Greek didn't descend from divine providence to be spoken by the people of the Greek nation. It was the result of a bunch of Greek governments trying to decide on what was proper and in the end Δημοτική won because it was the Greek language of the people, that the people of Greece spoke. The Greek people of Cyprus speak the Greek Cypriot language and it will win.

I don't think so. Take any illiterate shepperd who went to fight in Greece during WWII. Did he have any problem communicating? I'd bet nobody would understand him talking his local dialect though.

DrCyprus claims our dialect is the real Greek and originates from ancient Greek.

I don't claim that our Greek is the 'real' Greek, but I do say that it has the right to be lifted to a language and is of equal value to the Greek culture as every other Greek language throughout the ages.

Just wait until a few of of the thousands of World's dialects ever be lifted to languages and we will be the next laughing stock, don't worry :lol:

If that were so, then we in Cyprus should be able to understand Ancient Greek.
We DON'T!

All Greek languages originate from ancient Greek.

Therefore we are nothing special and we can't claim authenticity. The mere fact than nobody understands our dialect whereas everybody understand the official language just proves our "language" evolved in a distorted and alien way from it's roots. just take the Pontian dialect. I have to concentrate to realize it's not Russian...

I don't think you completely understand this topic, but I appreciate your input and I encourage you to read more on how languages evolve (if you are actually interested).

I also appreciate your story with the γουβαδάκι.

[tsukoui]

Ba, kyrie ki coo na sin?