Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

Map is ready.

Tomorrow, I'll post a list of questions/doubts that were raised in this thread and their answers.

Really Dr?

Greek was created before Cypriot? Really?

Try again!

Can you be more specific as to which Greek and which Cypriot you refer to?

I tried to depict what I meant, and I can only improve this visual aid with your feedback.

Sure, the Minoan Linear A and the Cypriot Linear B

http://www.ancientscripts.com/lineara.html

http://www.ancientscripts.com/cypriot.html

Irrelevant to this thread.
We are talking about how the modern Cypriot Greek language evolved, not where language appeared first.

That is where the Modern Cypriot Language evolved from. The so called Ancients were later adopters of Linear B, so you need to understand the correct sequence.

So if anything, Cypriots may have some kind of linguistic connection with the Minoans who were devasted by the Santorini Eruption causing a tsunami which destroyed their civilization. The Dorians had no connection with these peoples or Cypriots. So effectively, we are our own people with no connection with those who call themselves Greek!

All you have to do is visit Greece to understand that Greeks are on a different planet. If Cypriots are the same as them, then I will eat my hat.

[DrCyprus]

That is where the Modern Cypriot Language evolved from.

That is simply and factually untrue.

So if anything, Cypriots may have some kind of linguistic connection with the Minoans who were devasted by the Santorini Eruption causing a tsunami which destroyed their civilization.

If by Cypriots you mean the Cypriots of today, then you simply don´t know what you are on about.

The Dorians had no connection with these peoples or Cypriots. So effectively, we are our own people with no connection with those who call themselves Greek!

The Dorians were just one of many Greek tribes. They have nothing to do with anything.

The steps required to jump from your assumption to the conclusion you drawn("that we are our own people with no connection to the people who call themselves Greek") is not only an exercise of illogical futility but also a silly traditional feather dance performed by Erdogan's "relatives", the natives of America:

https://youtu.be/k3yQKhWCt-s?t=35

All you have to do is visit Greece to understand that Greeks are on a different planet. If Cypriots are the same as them, then I will eat my hat.

Have you ever visited Greece or Cyprus?

Look, I'm sure that if we checked Cypriot DNA we would be able to find lots of indications of our connection with those prehellenic ancestors. All the same, their cultures are long gone now and belong to the prehistory and early history of Cyprus.

What we need to do now, as Greek Cypriots, is safeguard our current Greek language and culture, officialize it as a true regional Greek language, map it and document it and pass on it's tremendous vocabulary and power of poetic and otherwise expression to our children. This is our current duty.

[DrCyprus]

As I said before, this is an ongoing objective of our “friends”. I am sure you are aware of what this objective is and what the consequences will be.

I don't think you are really clear on the "objective" of our "friends" yourself as you call them. Your argument flips and flops from one side to the other side every time you post.

In your first post you implied that the Turkish Cypriots claim a full clean Cypriot identity, and undermine us, the Greeks of Cyprus as "a foreign presence to be ethnically cleansed".

I told you that if we lifted Cypriot Greek to the status of a regional official language we would be able to show the world our unique Cypriot Greek culture without denying or diminishing our Ρωμιοσύνη.

Now, you imply, because you appear to hate talking straight and getting to the point, that the true "objective" of our "friends" is to divorce us from our Greekness and isolate us from our historical rights to Cyprus.

Once again, I tell you that if we lifted Cypriot Greek to the status of a regional official language we would be able to show the world our historic Greek roots without denying or diminishing our Cypriotness.

So think about what you read before you start mouthing off... κόπανε

You mentioned the “plurality of the Greek culture”. I take it to mean that the Greek culture is not one culture but many. What are these many cultures? Do they differ so much from each other that merit separation hence plurality?

Records of a Greek culture begin from as back as 1600 B.C and continue till today, they can be found as far west as Gibraltar and as far east as India. You might not know it but the Greek culture is one of the richest, most historic and most colorful in the world.

Now if you want to argue that Syracuse had the same Greek culture as the Grecobactrian Kingdom, or that the Byzantines and the Mycaeneans had the same exact Greek culture, or a recent example that the Greeks of Pontus and the Greeks of Alexandria and the Arvanites and the Karamanlides all had the same exact identical Greek culture then be my guest.

Should you like to read about the plurality of the Greek culture there are plenty of studies on the subject.

[Sotos]

I always thought that GR was uniquely stupid to keep confusing a SCRIPT with a LANGUAGE (even though he was corrected many times)... but it seems that Paphitis wants to compete with GR for the Mr. Stupid title And DrCyprus continues to try to present the case of Cyprus as a special case... he even drew a graph with two branches. The fact is that there are MANY Greek dialects and that the history of MANY islands and territories has been unique. Crete for example was also under the Venetians, some other islands were Italian colonies, some other territories were under the Slavs for a period of time, the Ottomans conquered and lost Greek islands/territories in different times, people moved from some territories to other (especially after the population exchange with Turkey) etc etc. So a "tree" with the history of each Greek island/territory would have many branches, not just two. But like every other nation, we have local dialects and we also have our STANDARD language spoken by ALL Greeks.

[Paphitis]

That is where the Modern Cypriot Language evolved from.

That is simply and factually untrue.

So if anything, Cypriots may have some kind of linguistic connection with the Minoans who were devasted by the Santorini Eruption causing a tsunami which destroyed their civilization.

If by Cypriots you mean the Cypriots of today, then you simply don´t know what you are on about.

The Dorians had no connection with these peoples or Cypriots. So effectively, we are our own people with no connection with those who call themselves Greek!

The Dorians were just one of many Greek tribes. They have nothing to do with anything.

The steps required to jump from your assumption to the conclusion you drawn("that we are our own people with no connection to the people who call themselves Greek") is not only an exercise of illogical futility but also a silly traditional feather dance performed by Erdogan's "relatives", the natives of America:

https://youtu.be/k3yQKhWCt-s?t=35

All you have to do is visit Greece to understand that Greeks are on a different planet. If Cypriots are the same as them, then I will eat my hat.

Have you ever visited Greece or Cyprus?

Look, I'm sure that if we checked Cypriot DNA we would be able to find lots of indications of our connection with those prehellenic ancestors. All the same, their cultures are long gone now and belong to the prehistory and early history of Cyprus.

What we need to do now, as Greek Cypriots, is safeguard our current Greek language and culture, officialize it as a true regional Greek language, map it and document it and pass on it's tremendous vocabulary and power of poetic and otherwise expression to our children. This is our current duty.

Oh yes I have visited Greece alright, a few times and I enjoy the country much more than the average Cypriot.

But you're deluded to think we have much in common with Greece because Greeks are a people who have very little in common with anyone. They are off the charts and just simply not on this planet. You just need to look at their mentality to understand that they are a people who will not conform to anything and they will burn their own country. Recent events in the last 5 years prove this.

Cypriots are a different people. Far more sensible! Cyprus, among other EU countries is recovering while Greece will probably ask for another tranche of bailouts within the next year or 2.

If you think we have anything in common, then you're deluded.

If we have their genes (and we don't) then Cyprus is literally fucked!

The only solution then is to start bonking Germans and Brits to dilute the so called "Greek" genes!

[Get Real!]

I always thought that GR was uniquely stupid to keep confusing a SCRIPT with a LANGUAGE (even though he was corrected many times)... but it seems that Paphitis wants to compete with GR for the Mr. Stupid title And DrCyprus continues to try to present the case of Cyprus as a special case...

There’s no difference whatsoever. I can write the word “bicycle” in the long form using 7 characters or use a symbol as shorthand with one or two characters like this… “@”. It’s the same thing if that’s what’s been decided by the inventor/s.

They’re all writing systems that work just fine. The ancient Cypriots were using their unique alphabet and no doubt communicated verbally just fine so I’m not sure what you’re trying to convey here…

Btw, the Greek alphabet has pinched many Phoenician letters and that of course means CYPRUS because Phoenicia was the union of Cyprus and the Levant.

I keep telling you people but you’re hard headed and incorrigible… Cyprus is far more ancient than Greece and therefore everything came to Cyprus FIRST including writing systems, religion, inventions, etc. Greece has no right to claim anything.

Cyprus is a very special case because (outside the ME) EVERYTHING came to Cyprus FIRST and you’d better believe it.

[Sotos]

I always thought that GR was uniquely stupid to keep confusing a SCRIPT with a LANGUAGE (even though he was corrected many times)... but it seems that Paphitis wants to compete with GR for the Mr. Stupid title And DrCyprus continues to try to present the case of Cyprus as a special case...

There’s no difference whatsoever. I can write the word “bicycle” in the long form using 7 characters or use a symbol as shorthand with one or two characters like this… “@”. It’s the same thing if that’s what’s been decided.

They’re all writing systems that work just fine. The ancient Cypriots were using their unique alphabet and no doubt communicated verbally just fine so I’m not sure what you’re trying to convey here…

"Είσαι Βλάκας" & "Ise Vlakas" is saying the same thing, in the same language, using 2 different scripts. The ancient people in Cyprus BEFORE the Greeks spoke a language which has NOTHING to do with what we speak today. OUR language is GREEK. And Greek, before the invention of the Greek alphabet, was written using different scripts, including the Cypriot Script.

[Get Real!]

I always thought that GR was uniquely stupid to keep confusing a SCRIPT with a LANGUAGE (even though he was corrected many times)... but it seems that Paphitis wants to compete with GR for the Mr. Stupid title And DrCyprus continues to try to present the case of Cyprus as a special case...

There’s no difference whatsoever. I can write the word “bicycle” in the long form using 7 characters or use a symbol as shorthand with one or two characters like this… “@”. It’s the same thing if that’s what’s been decided.

They’re all writing systems that work just fine. The ancient Cypriots were using their unique alphabet and no doubt communicated verbally just fine so I’m not sure what you’re trying to convey here…

"Είσαι Βλάκας" & "Ise Vlakas" is saying the same thing, in the same language, using 2 different scripts. The ancient people in Cyprus BEFORE the Greeks spoke a language which has NOTHING to do with what we speak today. OUR language is GREEK. And Greek, before the invention of the Greek alphabet, was written using different scripts, including the Cypriot Script.

Nah… when writing systems were invented there were no Greeks or Greece… in fact it’s unlikely that people had gone there yet let alone invent writing systems. For many thousands of years the population in this part of the world was CONFINED to the CRADLE OF CIVILIZATION, the map of which I’ve posted many times.

Forget Greece mate because that came much later. Greece is just a baby in history. By the time people had gradually made their way to the territory they call “Greece” today, everything had already been invented in the cradle of civilization and exported there.

fertilecrescentmap.jpg

[Get Real!]

Ancient Cyprus is the Alpha and the Omega of European civilization… everything else is bullshit! Cyprus is responsible for the writing systems and Christianity in Europe.

Just because our people were too stupid to claim their rightful place and opted to relegate themselves to some alien “Greek community” on Cyprus that is 500 miles away from where they should be, doesn’t mean they are correct.

Common sense MUST PREVAIL however among the educated that can read and understand the sequence of events over the millenniums. ie: Where did Man first appear, in which direction did he travel and build the first settlements, how long did this take? etc etc etc…

It is your choice to continue treating your people as some alien community to Cyprus or realize that such a scenario is impossible and ridiculous, and set the record straight for the sake of your ancient ancestors and children.

En kairos na stamatisoumen na brosvalloumen tous abogonous mas me din ellipsin anagnorisis tous! <-- PAY ATTENTION HERE!

[The subaltern]

Sorry mate. You are fighting a losing battle but been a κόπανος you cannot even see it.
I am not going to comment on your silly diagram. There is no point.

You are not even familiar with the history of Cyprus. Not knowing who our “friends” are, who, during their stay in Cyprus, had a single objective: to undermine the identity of the Greek Cypriots. They have left (?). There are though some κόπανοι, who, probably unintentionally, took up the mantle from them, pursuing the same objective. A Cypriot language! Κόπανε.

Protect the dialect by all means. Read Vasilis Michaelides, Karneras, (an illiterate shepherd), Liasides, Libertis etc, etc. Have they asked for a Cypriot language in order to express themselves? NO! I read them and I do not need a “Cypriot language” in order to understand them. You do! I suppose because you do not speak “prober” Greek (no laughing head hear) Bad experience during your school days I presume.
You will not succeed! Κόπανοι like you cannot see it even when facts hit them in the face.

I had a little chuckle to your response regarding my comment that language is a thought process not a tool etc. In your infinite wisdom, responded by suggesting that I should shove the paper where the sun never shines. The comments in fact were not mine but of a French professor of linguistics I think (the name escapes me as well as his exact words. I know I should not comment without references, but I thought been a linguist you must be aware of it. I was wrong)
So allow me to return the complement. You talk through the place the sun never shines. Κόπανε.

Oh! BTW was koine borne, by any chance, through immaculate conception? (You probably assume we all know. A mistake I made myself regarding your knowledge of the professor’s comments above)

What Greek Asia Minor and island dialects are you talking about? They are not all the same. They are divided into groups. The Cypriot dialect belongs to the eastern group of dialects. Read about it.

Also the Turks did not GIFT Cyprus to the British. They sold it to the British like Richard did to others. (Έμποροι των εθνών κόπανε) Learn your history.

Enough.

If anyone is sensitive to my bad English I apologize. I do not, as you can tell, speak “prober”