Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oceanside50]

mashallah kartashena sou

[Nikitas]

Lordo, you are doing what GC fanatics, both pro and against BBF do. Every time genuine quetions are raised about post solution daily life you people rush in with abuse.

Keep your cool. Oceanside and I are raising genuine questions about POST solution daily life. We want to know how you police and enforce the separate majorities. We are neither approving or disapproving of the idea. Personally I can see both pluses and minuses in the arrangement. But cannot see how it will be enforced. Oceanside is rightly asking if there will be police spot checks on passers by to see what nationality they are and where they reside.

Don't laugh. This is exactly what happens in Japan. The police call routinely on homes to verify who resides there and cross check the actual residents with ID data in the police administered registries. No one calls Japan a fascist country because it uses this verification method which is based in democratically passed law.

The corporate veil is not subject to derogation simply because it is impractical to apply derogations. If Company X buys land in either constituent state, and if this company's shares are publicly traded there is no way its shareholders can be individually verified, since they change second by second. Greece tried to apply shareholder verification and was shot down in the European court. There are also cross holdings where companies own shares in companies that own shares in companies etc, and mutual funds etc which simply cannot be broken down to individual names and addresses of shareholders.

Finally, population is a dynamic factor. People move, change jobs, start businesses. In modern societies these population moves are towards urban centers, which is why Istanbul went from 2 million to nearly 20 million in one generation. Objectively speaking, post solution Cypriots will want to move where the money and life is. That is what happened in the RoC and Limassol became the effective capital. I met several TCs there in July, one who had never left and three who moved after 2005. Presumably others will move there rather than live in some Mesaoria or Karpasia outpost no matter what the rules say. This trend is evident in GC villages all over the RoC. Villages that used to have hundreds of residents now have less than one hundred, mostly pensioners, the young people moved to towns.

These and other legitimate questions re a post solution situation are not challenges to the idea of BBF. It is funny how both the proponents and opponents of BBF rush to insult every time someone asks a question. There are many unforeseeables in this and any other human conceived plan, it is natural for some people ponder these unforeseeables.

[Get Real!]

...by next march if we don't have an agreed deal voted on by may, you can kiss roc goodbye and you are playing marbles .

Why, what's your useless little minority gonna do?

You are utterly powerless and not even Turkey has any political clout to help you.

And worst of all the big BEAR has just moved in next door to Turkey...

So quit wasting your time reading the CM because the only realistic news pertaining to Cyprus you'll get from ME.

Here's a recap why Turkey has no political clout unlike the RoC:

1. Turkey FAILS with NATO… (Turkey is violated daily by Russians and nobody cares)

2. Turkey FAILS with the EU… (Turkey is crying to Merkel yet Cyprus blocks them again)

3. Turkey FAILS with the UNGA/UNSC… (Cyprus has China + Russia in her pocket, and Turkey nobody!)

[Oceanside50]

Thanks Nikitas,

Keep your cool. Oceanside and I are raising genuine questions about POST solution daily life. We want to know how you police and enforce the separate majorities. We are neither approving or disapproving of the idea. Personally I can see both pluses and minuses in the arrangement. But cannot see how it will be enforced. Oceanside is rightly asking if there will be police spot checks on passers by to see what nationality they are and where they reside

If the Annan plan was approved through the referendum then whatever was in the Annan plan would become law of both states and the federal government. Each state would enact laws in their legislature that would give them the power to enforce the different aspects of the Annan plan, including the restrictions and derogations. It would be up to the states interpretation, of the annan plan , that would shape the different laws enacted in the state legislatures. We can expect the Tc state to be very restrictive with its laws on property... all could be required to show birth certificates to determine if they're parents have Greek sounding names or laws could be enacted to the degree of having a Cyprus I'd card with a cross or crescent..here in the USA the past concerns were about civil rights and in south states mostly the concern was about blacks mingling with whites...in some southern states, if the venue was private such as country clubs or schools, the courts gave them the right to discriminate in denying blacks access. Would all the land in the Tc state be declared public lands with individual titles(in order that the Tc state could have more control)I would imagine they could enact laws to that degree.. And the Tc have made it a point that no one Tc / GC could appeal a law or case higher then the Tc state Supreme Court. The interpretation of the law (Cyprus solution) is endless.

[Lordo]

mashallah kartashena sou

is this your idea of a serious discussion about the plan. furquin ell

[Lordo]

Lordo, you are doing what GC fanatics, both pro and against BBF do. Every time genuine quetions are raised about post solution daily life you people rush in with abuse.

Keep your cool. Oceanside and I are raising genuine questions about POST solution daily life. We want to know how you police and enforce the separate majorities. We are neither approving or disapproving of the idea. Personally I can see both pluses and minuses in the arrangement. But cannot see how it will be enforced. Oceanside is rightly asking if there will be police spot checks on passers by to see what nationality they are and where they reside.

Don't laugh. This is exactly what happens in Japan. The police call routinely on homes to verify who resides there and cross check the actual residents with ID data in the police administered registries. No one calls Japan a fascist country because it uses this verification method which is based in democratically passed law.

The corporate veil is not subject to derogation simply because it is impractical to apply derogations. If Company X buys land in either constituent state, and if this company's shares are publicly traded there is no way its shareholders can be individually verified, since they change second by second. Greece tried to apply shareholder verification and was shot down in the European court. There are also cross holdings where companies own shares in companies that own shares in companies etc, and mutual funds etc which simply cannot be broken down to individual names and addresses of shareholders.

Finally, population is a dynamic factor. People move, change jobs, start businesses. In modern societies these population moves are towards urban centers, which is why Istanbul went from 2 million to nearly 20 million in one generation. Objectively speaking, post solution Cypriots will want to move where the money and life is. That is what happened in the RoC and Limassol became the effective capital. I met several TCs there in July, one who had never left and three who moved after 2005. Presumably others will move there rather than live in some Mesaoria or Karpasia outpost no matter what the rules say. This trend is evident in GC villages all over the RoC. Villages that used to have hundreds of residents now have less than one hundred, mostly pensioners, the young people moved to towns.

These and other legitimate questions re a post solution situation are not challenges to the idea of BBF. It is funny how both the proponents and opponents of BBF rush to insult every time someone asks a question. There are many unforeseeables in this and any other human conceived plan, it is natural for some people ponder these unforeseeables.

really oceanstupid is raising serious issues, he couldn't raise his lazy ass off the toilet.

[Oceanside50]

Lordo, you are doing what GC fanatics, both pro and against BBF do. Every time genuine quetions are raised about post solution daily life you people rush in with abuse.

Keep your cool. Oceanside and I are raising genuine questions about POST solution daily life. We want to know how you police and enforce the separate majorities. We are neither approving or disapproving of the idea. Personally I can see both pluses and minuses in the arrangement. But cannot see how it will be enforced. Oceanside is rightly asking if there will be police spot checks on passers by to see what nationality they are and where they reside.

Don't laugh. This is exactly what happens in Japan. The police call routinely on homes to verify who resides there and cross check the actual residents with ID data in the police administered registries. No one calls Japan a fascist country because it uses this verification method which is based in democratically passed law.

The corporate veil is not subject to derogation simply because it is impractical to apply derogations. If Company X buys land in either constituent state, and if this company's shares are publicly traded there is no way its shareholders can be individually verified, since they change second by second. Greece tried to apply shareholder verification and was shot down in the European court. There are also cross holdings where companies own shares in companies that own shares in companies etc, and mutual funds etc which simply cannot be broken down to individual names and addresses of shareholders.

Finally, population is a dynamic factor. People move, change jobs, start businesses. In modern societies these population moves are towards urban centers, which is why Istanbul went from 2 million to nearly 20 million in one generation. Objectively speaking, post solution Cypriots will want to move where the money and life is. That is what happened in the RoC and Limassol became the effective capital. I met several TCs there in July, one who had never left and three who moved after 2005. Presumably others will move there rather than live in some Mesaoria or Karpasia outpost no matter what the rules say. This trend is evident in GC villages all over the RoC. Villages that used to have hundreds of residents now have less than one hundred, mostly pensioners, the young people moved to towns.

These and other legitimate questions re a post solution situation are not challenges to the idea of BBF. It is funny how both the proponents and opponents of BBF rush to insult every time someone asks a question. There are many unforeseeables in this and any other human conceived plan, it is natural for some people ponder these unforeseeables.

really oceanstupid is raising serious issues, he couldn't raise his lazy ass off the toilet.

i should edit before i post, here it is again...........

If the Annan plan was approved through the referendum in 2004, then all parts of the Annan plan would have become law of both states and the federal government. Each state would have had to enact laws in their legislature that would give them the power to enforce the different aspects of the Annan plan, including the restrictions and derogations that the Annan plan placed on the Tc state against the GC. It would be up to the states interpretation, of the annan plan , that would shape the different laws enacted in both state legislatures..As Mr Akinci recently stated, that he wants a clause,in the plan, that would guarantee the Tc state a majority of population by the Tc and a majority in Tc land ownership. This clause would give the Tc state all the power it would need to enact discriminatory racist laws against the GC and would also absolve the Tc state from the EU's Primary Law, which forbids discrimination and any violations of peoples' rights. This clause would become a part of the law of the land, much like the segregative law that was upheld in the USA's Supreme Court, Plessy v Ferguson that made segregation legal by stating that separate but equal was constitutional. . During the segregation era in the USA , the concerns of the whites were about white people interacting with blacks.. After the courts decision, southern states began passing laws through their legislatures, that would allow them to enforce the federal law. They forbade blacks from eating with whites in restaurants or attend public schools where white kids were attending. Some states even passed laws that made it illegal for a black barber to cut a white women's hair. We can expect the Tc state to be very restrictive with its state laws on property and ownership. People of Cyprus,for instance, wanting to buy in Kyrenia, could have been required to show birth certificates, to determine if their parents have Greek sounding names or laws could be enacted by the TC state to the degree of having an Id card with a cross or crescent or have laws in the TC legislature that would completely forbid Gc from buying/investing. The Tc state could also place a tax on GC land owners, or not allow Greek speaking schools to operate on its territory, or with the elimination of the right of appeal take away freedom of speech, the list is endless.... Another law that possibly can come out of the TC legislature, would be a law that made all territory of the Tc state public property. The Tc state would issue a title but the land ownership would stay with the Tc state, a kind of land lease deal with the holder of the title. Im not too sure about this type of law being enacted, but it would give the Tc state more control over its territory. I think every Cypriot(GC,TC) on the planet should fully understand what these people are negotiating in Nicosia before another blunder completely destroys Cyprus.

[Lordo]

your post above is very revealing of your mind and thoughts. erol continuously proves you wrong in what you understand of the annan plan and you ignore him. time for debating with idiots is over. you have had your allocation and have shown to be worthless. it is one thing to have a banter but when you return to the gutter on a serious matter you aint worth jack shit.

[Nikitas]

Ocean,

They know full well what they are negotiating in Nicosia, and that is why they are in a bit of a bind at this stage.

The derogations cannot be against one nationality/religion. They must be general in application not particular. So the derogation would be against ALL non TCs owning property beyond a percentage, or acreage, or number of owners, or whatever standard is chosen.

It would be comic to allow all other EU nationals to own property in either region but exclude Cypriots. Like I said above, the goal in TC leaders minds is not to exclude others, but to limit TCs from moving to the GC region en masse, and also to prevent a flood of mainland Turks moving in if and when Turkey becomes an EU member.

The appeal to the EU court is not regulated locally. The EU court is the only competent one to rule on its jurisdiction, ie whether to hear a case or not. We assume that the challenges will come from Cypriots who go through local courts. There may be challenges from non Cypriots to the derogations.

There will be many unforeseeables in this settlement. As there were in the 1960 agreements and they kept the courts busy.

[Lordo]

really so how were the east europeans derogated against then. you live in your own world. the annan pan was not accepted by the eu it was promoted by them. you better wake up and real soon.

you go to courts any time. the decision is made, you have to go through local remedies first. wake up ffs.