Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Piratis you did not want 1960 agreements and you still want to change them in your favor. It didnt work before and is the reason why we have the situation we have today. You still persist you are truly amazing, the "RoC" died for TCs back in 1963, how can you logically think TCs would want to go back, please be realistic. The situation is totally different now and need a solution to match the current concerns of both communites. You cannot be so narrow minded as not see that we will nto be forced to do anything, so chage the recoed and be more creative with your suggestions for a solution otherwise you will remain at sqaure 1 for the next zillion years or until the swing goes in your favor.

[Piratis]

And all this time I thought that you were after a solution.

Yes, after a solution were we are not getting screwed and you rewarded on our expense.

Your crusade of self-riotous human rights obviously has a self-motivated agenda.

Yeah. You never thought that having human rights should be a motivation for us ah? We think we should just be your slaves and feel ok with it like it used to be while you were oppressing us for 300 years.

Piratis you did not want 1960 agreements and you still want to change them in your favor.

The 1960 agreements were a huge compromise for us that is very true.

It didnt work before and is the reason why we have the situation we have today.

No, what we have today is the illegal Turkish occupation. Many systems around the world didn't work. The result was a new system that works. Not foreign occupation.

You still persist you are truly amazing, the "RoC" died for TCs back in 1963, how can you logically think TCs would want to go back, please be realistic.

Give us our human, legal and democratic rights and then you have the freedom to go wherever you want. you don't have the right to violate our human rights though. You don't have the right for the occupation or for the pseudo "TRNC" either.

The situation is totally different now and need a solution to match the current concerns of both communites.

Our concerns are nothing more than our human, democratic and legal rights. This should be your concerns as well. Sorry, but if you demand half the world this doesn't mean you have the right for it, right?

You cannot be so narrow minded as not see that we will nto be forced to do anything, so chage the recoed and be more creative with your suggestions for a solution otherwise you will remain at sqaure 1 for the next zillion years or until the swing goes in your favor.

I agree. Just don't hope that the "swing" will take a "zillion" years. We are in the 21st century now. Nothing takes very long.

There is no space for "creativity" as far as it concerns our human rights.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis its obvious you are a lost cause.

Dont bank on that swing going your way it can always go further the other way like 1974.

[zan]

And all this time I thought that you were after a solution.

Yes, after a solution were we are not getting screwed and you rewarded on our expense.

It worked for you and Makarios and his henchmen.

Your crusade of self-riotous human rights obviously has a self-motivated agenda.

Yeah. You never thought that having human rights should be a motivation for us ah? We think we should just be your slaves and feel ok with it like it used to be while you were oppressing us for 300 years.

So you think that you will turn the table and make us your slaves. I am not an Ottoman, I am a Turkish Cypriot and I want equality in my own land. People like you will not give it to me because you think that you are superior and that the violations you and your kind committed do not count. Well they do count and will count on further negotiations. I just hope that they have not got people like you at the table.

[Piratis]

It worked for you and Makarios and his henchmen.

What "henchmen"?
It worked for you when you were oppressing us for 300 years. But now thats over. This is why you live in a 3rd world puppet state. If you want any progress today you have to accept international law and forget what you used to do before. Invade and conquere is not working for you as it used to anymore.

So you think that you will turn the table and make us your slaves.

No, we will turn the table and take our human rights and our land back.

I am a Turkish Cypriot and I want equality in my own land.

I want that for me and for you as well. Never said the opposide.

People like you will not give it to me because you think that you are superior and that the violations you and your kind committed do not count.

Who said they don't count??? Of course they do. We commited crimes for 10 years you commited crimes for 350 years. So how should these crimes count in the negotiations according to you? Forget your 350 years of crimes and remember only our 10 years of crimes? Thats how you dream it?

[zan]

It worked for you and Makarios and his henchmen.

What "henchmen"?
It worked for you when you were oppressing us for 300 years. But now thats over. This is why you live in a 3rd world puppet state. If you want any progress today you have to accept international law and forget what you used to do before. Invade and conquere is not working for you as it used to anymore.

Erm! Grivas, Samson, EOKA. There is only one puppet here and that is you. You poor lad you who have suffered for three hundred years. What utter rubbish you talk and expect people to take you seriously.

So you think that you will turn the table and make us your slaves.

No, we will turn the table and take our human rights and our land back.

As we did in 1974????

I am a Turkish Cypriot and I want equality in my own land.

I want that for me and for you as well. Never said the opposide.

Not with people like you in charge.

People like you will not give it to me because you think that you are superior and that the violations you and your kind committed do not count.

Who said they don't count??? Of course they do. We commited crimes for 10 years you commited crimes for 350 years. So how should these crimes count in the negotiations according to you? Forget your 350 years of crimes and remember only our 10 years of crimes? Thats how you dream it?

Never said anything of the sort. It is you who are saying that. Just because 350 is a bigger number than 10 you think that that will pull the wool over peoples eyes. Well 10 years is generous from some one like you, but I beg to differ on that figure and I think that most who know their history will do to.

[Piratis]

Erm! Grivas, Samson, EOKA.

Grivas and Samson were criminals that tried to kill Makarios. They were the equivalent of your TMT terrorists.

There is only one puppet here and that is you. You poor lad you who have suffered for three hundred years. What utter rubbish you talk and expect people to take you seriously.

You are the ones who demands that human rights violations should continue against us because of the past. I am simply pointing out that in the past you have been a lot worst than us and therefore you can not demand our punishment and a reward for you.

As we did in 1974????

No, In 1974 you took our land. This is why the "TRNC" is an illegal pseudo state. RoC taking back the land that legally belongs to it will be our 100% right. I hope you see the difference.

Not with people like you in charge.

and what people in charge? The ones that will be willing to sacrifice human rights and gift to you the lands you took by force in 1974?

Well 10 years is generous from some one like you, but I beg to differ on that figure and I think that most who know their history will do to.

Oh, ok, so how much is it? 15? You count in the conflicts that started before 1960 when eight Greek Cypriots were massacred in a cornfield near the Turkish village of Geunyeli? You will count that part of history as part of our "crimes" as well? Even in that 10-15 years you have committed as much crimes against us as we had committed against you. You have no right to demand further violations of our human rights and your reward on our expense.

[zan]

Erm! Grivas, Samson, EOKA.

Grivas and Samson were criminals that tried to kill Makarios. They were the equivalent of your TMT terrorists.

Only when Makarios finally lost control of them. At first they were his recruits and did as he said. But Makarios being the egocentric that he was thought that he could take on Greece and then tried to tell the world that he was not responsible.

There is only one puppet here and that is you. You poor lad you who have suffered for three hundred years. What utter rubbish you talk and expect people to take you seriously.

You are the ones who demands that human rights violations should continue against us because of the past. I am simply pointing out that in the past you have been a lot worst than us and therefore you can not demand our punishment and a reward for you.

I am not demanding your punishment. I am saying that I will not allow any more punishment to be dished out to anybody. I want all the GCs and the TCs to be paid for their property and let's move on. You want a pound of flesh and all the blood that is spilt in the process. It ain’t going to happen. You can make your threats to me all you like. Sometimes I think that you think that you are talking to a government official or maybe Talat himself when you make your threats.

As we did in 1974????

No, In 1974 you took our land. This is why the "TRNC" is an illegal pseudo state. RoC taking back the land that legally belongs to it will be our 100% right. I hope you see the difference.

Not really. We take your land you take our land you take the land off the original Cypriots can’t see the difference. Unless of course if you get special dispensation for being Greek.

Not with people like you in charge.

and what people in charge? The ones that will be willing to sacrifice human rights and gift to you the lands you took by force in 1974?

No the ones that will realise that we now have power and are holding part of the solution and will not give it awayso that the great Piratis can say "We won".

Well 10 years is generous from some one like you, but I beg to differ on that figure and I think that most who know their history will do to.

Oh, ok, so how much is it? 15? You count in the conflicts that started before 1960 when eight Greek Cypriots were massacred in a cornfield near the Turkish village of Geunyeli? You will count that part of history as part of our "crimes" as well? Even in that 10-15 years you have committed as much crimes against us as we had committed against you. You have no right to demand further violations of our human rights and your reward on our expense.

[/quote]

See you can negotiate. I have almost got another five years out of you. Not enough though for a settlement.

[Piratis]

At first they were his recruits and did as he said.

Zan, you are just imagining things.

I am not demanding your punishment. I am saying that I will not allow any more punishment to be dished out to anybody.

Stopping people to go back to their own lands is not a punishment according to you?

. I want all the GCs and the TCs to be paid for their property and let's move on.

Ok, so how much do you want to move out of Cyprus completely? Apparently for you it is only a matter of money, right?

You want a pound of flesh and all the blood that is spilt in the process. It ain’t going to happen.

If we can have a fair solution it will not happen. As long as you insist on violations of human rights there is no way the circle of blood will be stopped.

You can make your threats to me all you like. Sometimes I think that you think that you are talking to a government official or maybe Talat himself when you make your threats.

I didn't make any threats. I simply said the obvious. You are illegally keeping our land. You will not give it back voluntarily. Isn't it natural that when we will have the power we will take it back by ourselves. Isn't it natural for a country to fight the foreign invader? Should France and the whole Europe remained under the Nazis? I simply said the obvious. There was no threat.

Not really. We take your land you take our land you take the land off the original Cypriots can’t see the difference. Unless of course if you get special dispensation for being Greek.

No. You took the land of Greek Cypriots. Cyprus has a specific amount of space. We own the 82% you own the 18%. Now you illegally keep 37%. Double of what you own. You stole that from Greek Cypriots.

No the ones that will realise that we now have power and are holding part of the solution and will not give it awayso that the great Piratis can say "We won".

Piratis will win sooner or later no matter of what any leader will agree. Justice can not be avoided. The only solution is human rights for everybody, democracy and legality. Everything else is part of the problem.

See you can negotiate. I have almost got another five years out of you. Not enough though for a settlement.

Sure. for you to be enough you have to make GCs look so bad to deserve a punishment. I tell you what: Lets erase the 350 years of Turkish crimes and lets add some imaginary years against GCs. This way you can have an excuse to commit even more crimes against GCs. What do you think?

[zan]

(Interpretation of ex-TRNC President Rauf Denktas' speech 18.07.2005 "Rum Propogandasi Ve Biz")

According to foreign diplomats the will of the Greeks to put in place the Akritas Plan has wilted away with the times of Archbishop Makarios and Yorgacis. We are told that in a Cyprus that is part of the European Union there is no room for a repeat of what happened between 1963-1974, but in return the Turkish Cypriots must abandon their desire to be recognised as a separate state; agree to remove all Turkey's guarantees on the island; accept that land ownership and right of return is a right for everybody on the island; and the whole Cyprus issue can be resolved by the European Court of Human Rights Commission.

After these sweet words we are then asked -

"Do you really believe that ENOSIS can still take place in Cyprus with the events of 1963 - 1974 repeated?"
This leads me to begin stating a few facts and start asking questions of my own!

Is Cyprus a Greek island? According to the Security Council laws "Cyprus is the homeland of both Turkish and Greek Cypriots, and these communities enjoy an equal partnership in the island."

The two communities do not have a majority-minority status, they are equal. Both communities are regarded as equal because there is no common Cypriot nationality or peoples instead the inhabitants are either Turkish or Greek. The 1960 Cyprus Republic Constitution had been developed according to these realities.

The Greek terrorist attacks to proclaim ENOSIS started in 1963 to break down these agreements, and they have done just that.

The Greek Cypriot Administration now enjoys the recognition as the 'Cyprus Government' and they hide behind the lies and deceitful image of having sole ownership of the whole of Cyprus. The stance of the Greek Cypriot administration to this very day creates a dangerous situation in Cyprus.

Operating under this false title, the Greek Cypriot Administration continues this political approach against the Turkish Cypriots since the first proclamation of ENOSIS in the 1950's.

The persistent approach of the Greek Cypriot Administration to tell the world that they are the sole government of Cyprus and force the Turkish Cypriots to join a Cyprus under their leadership without the guarantee role of Turkey will have the same ramifications as the period between 1963-1974.

So my answer to the foreign diplomats is "Yes I do believe that the events of 1963-1974 will be repeated."

Most importantly if the guarantor role of Turkey is removed and the Turkish troops are forced to leave Cyprus, this will pave the way for the 'Crete Plan' in Cyprus (alot of foreign diplomats question what happened to the Turkish community in Crete, whilst others believe that the Turkish people of Crete continue to live a peaceful and prosperous life.) If the Greek Cypriot administration had initiated steps to reconciliation and to prove that the events of 1963-1974 would not be repeated, they would have apologised to the Turkish Cypriots and paved the way for compensation claims for the victim’s families that were massacred.

It is astonishing how the Greek Cypriot Administration claims that the Greeks and Turks of Cyprus lived in peace between 1963-1974. It is frightful how they claim that the Turkish and Greek Cypriots lived like brothers. It is very wrong indeed how Tassos Papadopoulos claims that between 1963-1974 not a single Turkish person was killed!

The Greek Cypriot Administration has based its politics on "One Nation, One Identity" and they persist in using the property compensation claims to destroy a bizonal, two state solution in Cyprus. How easy they forget about what they did to the Turkish towns and properties that now lie in South Cyprus.

If you were in my shoes, if you were Rauf Denktas, would you not struggle for a solution that will safeguard your rights in Cyprus for eternity? Isn't it your right and duty to support peace in the form of a two state solution based on equality with Greek Cypriots? What guarantees are given to Turkish Cypriots by the world after the Greek Cypriots have not apologised and provided compensation to the families of the victims of genocide?

Finally not to forget, how could we live together with the Greek Cypriot Administration that has proclaimed the year 2005 as the 'EOKA Year' and provided bravery medallions to EOKA terrorists that were responsible for genocide in Cyprus?

Naturally it is easy to complain and point the finger at a so called 'uncompromising Rauf Denktas' because the Greek Cypriot Administration is correct and the Turkish Cypriots are wrong!