Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

peace4cyprus dont say i didnt warn you

Was that about me cypezokyli? I don't know if you noticed but I am one of those few that agreed with what peace4cyprus said and responded to his call. So I don't understand your reaction.

What I said is a simple truth. To build trust you need both sides to be willing to build trust. As it is argued already for trust to be build we have to apologise and accept our mistakes. But when the majority of TCs do not even consider as a crime or a mistake the ethnic cleansing of 200.000 Greek Cypriots, then how will they apologise for it and how will trust be created?

Sadly,I have to agree with you,Piratis.
There are many people on both sides whose personal interests preclude reunification.That is why we need to work harder and cleverer on this forum,and elsewhere,to show them up.To shame them.If they are capable of being shamed that is...

I will disagree slightly Bir. There are several GCs that might not want unification for their own personal reasons. These might be the 5-10%, not more.
However in the case of TCs this percentage is much higher, I am afraid the majority, and part of them want partition not only for personal reasons but also because they believe this is the best for their community as a whole (and they don't care if what they consider best for them is build on the human rights violations of others)

Now the question I used to have was: Can these people be convinced, or wake up their conscience and accept that what they consider best for themselves should not overwrite the human rights of others?

For me this question has been answered. The answer is "No". As I see you still have hope. Is this hope based on logic, or is a vague hope, like the hope we have that when we die we will go to paradise or something like that? Because logically I can not explain this hope that you have.

[Alexis]

I too am happy to sign my name here:

I want to apologize to my Turkish Cypriot compatriots for the crimes committed against them by the Greek Cypriot nationalists. I want to apologize for alienating them by insisting on enosis without considering their feelings. I want to apologize for not doing our best to make the 1960 agreements work out.

I am asking our Turkish Cypriot compatriots to forgive us.
Sincerely
Alexis

What I said is a simple truth. To build trust you need both sides to be willing to build trust. As it is argued already for trust to be build we have to apologise and accept our mistakes. But when the majority of TCs do not even consider as a crime or a mistake the ethnic cleansing of 200.000 Greek Cypriots, then how will they apologise for it and how will trust be created?

I disagree. We don't know this as a fact. Yes, a lot of TCs seem to be obsessed with their status as a minority and would rather have a seperate independent state, however given that they are a minority I would say that the onus is more on the GC community to build trust and reach out to TCs rather than the other way round.
Also remember that we are still feeling the fallout from the Annan Plan.
What really annoyed me about the Annan Plan was the fact that it has probably done far more damage to the Trust between the two communities than any other single event this side of 1974. Surely this wasn't the intention? (then again perhaps it was).

[Alexios]

I apologise also..small or big faults.. it doesnt matter...

[michalis5354]

Hi Peace4Cyprus,

Interesting to read your message! I agree that there are mistakes done from our side which have resulted in the mess that we live now.I think unless we acknowledge these mistakes we cant proceed forward . I also acknowledge the wrongdoing of our side ie nationalism , the lack of determination to build a strong independent state, greek flags everywhere from church to schools ,the complete absence of objective resources regarding the history of Cyprus at schools and the list can go on.

I am also happy to participate in your thread!

[Rude Gal]

Hey amigos,

I iz new to this forum, but have been an occassional follower...

Trust comes from being honest with one another and that comes down to the 'truth'. Truth is the path to reconcilliation, with our past and each other.

But brothers & sisters, it seems like we got confusion over what truth is.

For some, EOKA and TMT are terrorists, for others freedom fighters.

Innocents always suffer...

Missing, murdered and refugees on both sides. Ethnic cleansing has affected both sides (for Turkish Cypriots, that started in December 1963. 103 villages in total. Always seems to get forgotten). The trauma continues on both sides.

Sadly, we can't change the past. And I ain't digging the present either. HOW MUCH NEGATIVE ENERGY? WHERE'S THE LOVE???????????? AND THEY SAY THIS IS APRHODITE'S ISLAND!!!!!

It can't be right that the journey to get own rights back involves hurting others? Yes, I'm talking about the 41+ years of Turkish Cypriot isolation. More than a unilateral and I'm sure heartfelt apology, what would really make a positive difference is for Greek Cypriots to come together with Turkish Cypriots to end this discrimination. That would built up more trust and respect than any amount of apologising.

Does that mean you sell out Greek Cypriot needs and 200,000 refugees? I don't think so. The refugee problem (both my parents are from the South, now live in the North and under the Annan Plan would have been displaced again) from both sides can only be resolved with a comprehensive solution, not piecemeal legal action. And a permanent fair solution, whatever shape that may be, can only come from mutual trust and respect.

These values are sorely lacking on the island...

So I offer a pledge instead of an apology.

I will treat all in Cyprus and beyond as my equals, doing unto them what I would want for myself, showing them the love and respect I expect for myself, showing tolerance for their views, and understanding and compassion for their pain. I will neither seek to obstruct nor ignore their legitimate interests, nor to seek unfair advantage, but do all I can to create a fair and free world where we can live in peace and harmony.

There is space for all. But only when we start applying universal values for all can we come together in Cyprus.

Adios amigos.

[TheCabbie]

If the politicians went into negotiations with the spirit of this thread in their hearts... Things could be wrapped up pretty quickly

[BirKibrisli]

It is threads like this that keep my hope going that one day sanity will pevail on our beautiful but tragic island.
It is easy to be discouraged when we get bombarded by zealous nationalists who only want to highlight our differences,and keep dredgeing up the dark side of our common history.
Piratis is right when he says there are more TCs who will benefit from the status quo.So more or them will resist reunification.But human justice can only be postponed for so long.It cannot be postponed indefinetly.Because after a while divine justice comes into play.And nothing can prevent that.
Don't get me wrong,I am not a fatalist who believes all we can do is sit back and wait for divine justice.As a Sufi I believe that HU (Him/Her that is God) is part of us,and we are all part of HU,the One Absolute Being.HU Works the magic through us,touches our hearts and makes us see what is just and fair sooner or later.When the veil is lifted we do what is necessary to achieve justice and peace and love,the source of all goodness and kindness in the universe.It is only a matter of time.

[cypezokyli]

wouldnt it be nicer if we had here simon, OB1, rafaella, zan , eric, sourcey , tonny, vassos, etc etc ?
if we could say apologies and nothing else?
we still need a lot of work bir

[peace4cyprus]

However there is a fundamental flow in your logic. You assume that the solution that everybody wants is reunification, and you propose the obvious way to achieve this aim. The flaw in this logic is that unification is not the aim of many, including, unfortunately, the majority of TCs.

What you say is logical. I think the difference is how we interpret the actions of these people.

Why would the people you describe have an aim other than reunification?
Why would some Turkish Cypriots feel that they are better off alone?

The eagerness of so many European nations to join the EU abandoning in this way part of their independence is a proof that being alone and separate is not something necessarily good.

Could it be that the Turkish Cypriots that have partition as their aim do so because they do not have trust? Lack of trust -> Partition as an aim -> Trust does not serve partition aim -> Lack of trust. A circle!

What can WE do to brake this circle? Being pessimistic and giving up will certainly not help. Being a optimistic and keep trying, in the correct way, could have a result. Even if the possibility is a small one if we all try together it will become a bit more possible. Please do not give up.

Thanks to everybody who participate in this thread. I hope that more people will contribute in a positive way soon.

[Viewpoint]

peace4cyprus I am just one of those people, who do not trust the true intentions of GCs and their leadership. Due to the non existence of trust people like me question every detail the GCs put forward and respond accordingly, demanding safe guards. GCs do nothing to eliviate our fears and win our trust to be able to repond in more flexible fashion. People like Kifeas, Piratis and co still fuel this mistrust by their hardline approach and you are a minority act like one mentality. If you were a TCs carrying the fears and apprehensions that we have due to our dark past and experience with GCs want to agree anything with the Piratis/Kifeas let alone become a minority in a country people like this would run? Sorry but I do not want this for me or my children, better to stay divided forever.

Why is it do you think many GC cannot comprehend this trust issue and just dismiss it as unimportant and used by TCs as an excuse, which believe me could not be further from the truth.