RAKE said ......
Well, I haven't really changed my view since all this began, so I'm not sure what "stand with" means.
Well as I haven’t changed my mind since all this began ....... and I include both Syria and Ukraine in that ........and as I have some time to spare .........
Are you really that naive! ‘Standing with Israel’ means as you well know means you have taken sides and that is what all your posts indicate quite clearly. As totally supportive as you are of Israeli actions, usually demonstrated by your silence, you are equally and far more vocally critical of and ready to condemn anything, that can be associated with the Palestinians responses. Including casualty figures!
If you mean do I regard Hamas as a despicable terrorist group – absolutely....... ....... and you could inflate that to standing with Israel.
Why? Hamas was not formed until late 1987 to defend the rapidly diminishing Palestinian territories against a vastly superior Israeli force, against whom they had no defense force . The Zionist as the aggressor was overwhelmingly better armed and a force against whom they had little or no defense.
You seem to forget the ‘
Zionists Terrorists’ went from a group of anti British terrorists almost overnight in 1948, to a Military force whose sole task was to steal land by force for the creation of a State exclusively for Jewish People, even though that land was occupied by others.
The Zionist snake then shed its skin are now know as the IDF and were immediately accepted as ‘legitimate’ with the backing of the US and the UK. The Zionists rode rough shod over a people that, unlike them, had no army to defend themselves and it has continued to this very day.
YES ..... you do stand with Israel!
The Israelis look after themselves - as is universally known. In normal times I've been fairly indifferent.
Don’t kid yourself ..... you have
NEVER been indifferent! It is ‘
universally known’ as you put it, that the Israeli’s are bullies but have the backing of an even bigger bully!
All this talk about them being "cowards" flies in the face of history.
But it doesn’t ‘
fly in the face of history’! The Zionists with the IDF acting as the muscle, are bullies and bullies are cowards when they face any equally armed opponent. When they meet stiff well armed opposition in the past they have a tendency to back away from a serious confrontation ......
As history shows! Israel's armed forces are among the most respected in the world, and for good reason. You and wotsitsname have made it sound like some sort of gladiatorial, man on man, fight in the Colloseum. Absurd. It's a war - and Hamas provoked it.
The forces are mainly conscripts and apart from a couple of face offs with a seriously armed opponent ......when they have inevitably backed down ...... they have only ever attacked civilians ..... some of whom carried light weapons ....... (
and eventually those with arms created a command structure ...... called HAMAS!) What came first the chicken of the egg?
It’s a war all right but even you have to admit it is and always has been, very one sided and the US and its allies are doing everything to keep it that way. But Lordo is right when he remarks that they are frightened to go into those tunnels. All they can do is carpet bomb whole areas in the hope they collapse the tunnels below with total disregard for civilian casualties ..... who, whether you admit it or not, are mainly just women, children, the old and the infirm! The Zionist forces being the bullies/cowards that they are ........ know if they set foot inside those tunnels in any significant way, just like happened to the US in Vietnam, they will be wiped out. Genocide is easier!
....... AND NO ........ HAMAS did not provoke it! They have exercised their right to self defense ....... but without a sophisticated military machine to do it with.
I believe the Palestinians have a justified claim to their lands and as such have the right to self defence against a vastly superior military force backed by another bunch of bullies called the USA! Once again .....HAMAS was created in late 1987 ....... the war against the Palestinian people started in 1948 and had been planned since the mid/late 1800’s. So don’t talk a load of crap!
Discarding the absolutely inevitable Conspiracy Theory and false flag nonsense, we've even had it posited that Hamas in fact had nothing at all to do with the events of 7th October by your "Swinecunt" friend. You keep odd company.
Well they obviously did engage in a border incursion ....... but when the truth is know about who did all the killing ..... I think Lordo will be proved to have been on the right side of history ....... although his narrative when giving an explanation could do with a bit of cultural refinement ...... he has got the picture far more accurately than you and CG!
What happenened on 7th October pretty much speaks for itself though. Hamas came out of Gaza with the clear intent to kill as many as they could.
More absolute rubbish! They came out of d Gaza with the intent of first taking out the military threat to their operation
(which they did) and that operation was to take hostages so they could use them to get some of the 8000+ hostages, many of them minors and women, out of Israeli prisons in exchange! A dead Jew/settler is bad PR ...... do you really think they are that stupid to just go on a senseless killing spree?
Try a bit of something I would say is far closer to the reality ..........
https://www.google.com/search?q=how+many+palestinian+prisoners+are+there+in+israel&rlz=1C1GCEA_enCY916CY916&oq=how+many+palestinian+prisoners+are+t&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqDAgAEAAYFBiHAhiABDIMCAAQABgUGIcCGIAEMgcIARAAGIAEMgYIAhBFGDkyCAgDEAAYFhgeMggIBBAAGBYYHjIICAUQABgWGB4yCAgGEAAYFhgeMg0IBxAAGIYDGIAEGIoFMg0ICBAAGIYDGIAEGIoFMg0ICRAAGIYDGIAEGIoFqAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:d6dbf161,vid:dbfiZC-VlPA,st:0In that they were successful to the extent of murdering about 1200. Including whole families in adjacent Kibbutz and 364 young people at the Al Reem music festival. There, methodically mowing them down with assault rifles and RPGs. In addition, abducting 253 Israelis. Men, women and even 32 children. Dragging them back to Gaza
But the reality is that once again you are prepared to soak up the propaganda to the total disregard of the evidence now coming out that most of those killed were killed by the IDF. The weapons HAMAS had were not capable of carrying out the destruction seen in videos released by Israel. In fact the number of civilians actually killed by HAMAS was maybe a little as 200 or even less and some were police and local militia. But of course you just ignore anything that suggests something antithetical to your opinion ...... which is very rarely backed by any evidence.
In answer to your question "Was the attaas hostages.ck on 7th Oct not a demonstration of the Palestinians right to self defence?" I would say those events pretty much speak for themselves and that you have an odd, and pretty coldblooded, view of what consitutes "self defence".
The history of the conflict says my view is by far the greater probability.
I don't know how many Palestinians have been killed. What I'm saying is that the figures being banded about have come from Hamas - whoever's quoting them - they've been inconsistent and don't tie up.
THAT is not what the evidence says!
Whilst we're into the moral high ground stuff. I remind you of when the conflict in Syria was raging, with Assad and his Russian backers having killed many tens of thousands of Shia Muslim "rebels" and I put that to you, your response was the equivalent of the local shoulder shrug and a comment along the lines it was the only way to deal with "embedded terrorists".
Exactly true if they are terrorists ....... just as it was in Ukraine! And the Yanks are still illegally occupying a large part of Northern Syria ...... and stealing the oil! And isn’t it strange that the Syrian people that were rescued from these US/UK terrorist hail Russia as a force that helped them when they needed it most, not just by giving (
selling) them weapons but with boots-on-the-ground and wings-in-the-air! ....... and the same people HATE the US and its stooges?
Moreover, when it comes to Israel's reaction to 7th October I draw your attention to some of the comments you have made about the Ukraine/Russia war in the past:
Robin Hood wrote: DON'T corner the Diamond Back Rattler and don't poke the Bear ..................you should be worried and not poke the bear to the point it really feels it has a need to protect itself before the other side exterminates it ...... they have yet to learn that it is not a wise move to poke a sleepy Russian bear with a stick.
More ‘whataboutery ‘? What do you not understand about the fact that KYIV ESCALATED THE UKRANE CIVIL WAR, and that the 2014 war was instigated by the US/UK. RUSSIA RESPONDED TO KYIV’S AGRESSION when requested by AN RTP FROM THE VICTIMS OF KYIV’S AGRESSION, that was fully BACKED BY THE US AND ITS PARTNERS. But Russia stuck to the Law .......... AND LEGALLY KICKED THE CRAP OUT OF THEM 10 DAYS AFTER UKRAINE STARTED IT! Do you never f**king listen?
So, I take you're hypocritical, angry indignation about Gaza (where deaths are a fraction of those in Ukraine and Syria) with a jaundiced view.
The big difference which once again you manage to avoid is that the deaths in Ukraine are to the greatest extent ....... military deaths.
Russia, as far as I know has not carpet bombed civilians areas, killing hundreds/thousands of women and children ...... and then used the excuse they were only killing the AZOV and Right Sector fascists!
Finally, once again I've tried to keep things civil, to no avail. Your "There is as much between your ears as there is in CG's bucket!" et al was uncalled for. As I've said before, you obviously enjoy getting angry and letting off a bit of steam, although often complaining about others playing the man, not the ball. I think anybody who read it will have gotten a view of what's going on up top with you when the mask slipped in an earlier post and you talked about wanting to slowly push a bayonet up Cameron's arse. I mean, who get's that worked up about any politico, let alone Del Boy Cameron?
It’s all about your hurt feelings again!
I don't harbour that sort of hatred for any politician.
Except for Putin and anyone that sees him as a rational and a strong patriotic leader doing what he and his advisors believe is good for his country and its people. Don’t you read the news papers? Putin won the election with 80%+ voting for him! But of course no doubt your opinion would be that he only won because he ‘
murdered’ Navalney, his arch rival ........ with a blood clot!
I don't harbour that sort of hatred for any politician.
