Cyprus-Forum.com

[Maximus]

"One facet of respect .....

Telling TC that those innocents murdered pre 74 was because they were descendants of Ottoman invaders in 1571 and thus 'had it comming', or those innocents murdered during 74 were excused because Turkey invaded or that you should have killed way more TC that you did, are these all facets of 'respect' ? You want respect but are you willing to offer it ?

The TC's had a little apartheid running throughout this time.

You think a minority can run an oppressive discriminating regime against a majority for long without backlash or consequence?

No respect was shown by your community towards the natives, ever! No respect is shown towards the GC by the TC to this day. All successive TC community leaders have tried to make apartheid the solution.

How innocent were these innocent people if their politics was racist and supportive of apartheid?

[erolz66]

The TC's had a little apartheid running throughout this time.

That you can compare how GC lived in Cyprus between 60-74 with how SA lived under apartheid just shows how little respect you have, for SA and it's history and for the truth. Through 400+ years of Ottoman rule of Cyprus there was no physical geographical separation of TC and GC. Through the majority of the years of British rule in Cyprus there was no geographical separation between TC and GC in Cyprus. That seperation and the desire for it only came about as the end of British rule loomed. Why do you think that was ?

You think a minority can run an oppressive discriminating regime against a majority for long without backlash or consequence?

You claim the TC community was running an oppressive discriminatory regime against the GC community in Cyprus in the period 63-74 and want to talk about respect ?

No respect was shown by your community towards the natives, ever!

Greek culture in Cyprus is no more native to Cyprus than Maori culture is native to New Zealand. Greek culture arrived in Cyprus from outside Cyprus and went on to subsume and replace entirely the PRIOR Cypriot culture that WAS native to Cyprus, such that it ceased to exist at all.

How innocent were these innocent people if their politics was racist and supportive of apartheid?

So innocent TC who defied the TC leadership and TMT efforts to segregate and separate TC from GC in the period 63-68 and as a result of such defiance were murdered by GC, like my own uncle, these murders should, according to you, be discounted, ignored, forgotten, excused or justified because 'they supported apartheid' ? My uncle was murdered because he did NOT support segregation and separation of TC and GC in this period. You say these things and talk of respect ?

[Maximus]

The TC's had a little apartheid running throughout this time.

That you can compare how GC lived in Cyprus between 60-74 with how SA lived under apartheid just shows how little respect you have, for SA and it's history and for the truth. Through 400+ years of Ottoman rule of Cyprus there was no physical geographical separation of TC and GC. Through the majority of the years of British rule in Cyprus there was no geographical separation between TC and GC in Cyprus. That seperation and the desire for it only came about as the end of British rule loomed. Why do you think that was ?

lots of irrelevant filler here. I will get to the point. There are various forms of apartheid, its not only about seperation and the whites in South Africa did not invent it.
Apartheid : A rigid policy of segregating and economically and politically oppressing part of a population. Any system or practice that separates people according to color, ethnicity, caste, etc.

You think a minority can run an oppressive discriminating regime against a majority for long without backlash or consequence?

You claim the TC community was running an oppressive discriminatory regime against the GC community in Cyprus in the period 63-74 and want to talk about respect ?

yes, I claim that they were and before this. (take note of your last response and loop back for consistency)

No respect was shown by your community towards the natives, ever!

Greek culture in Cyprus is no more native to Cyprus than Maori culture is native to New Zealand. Greek culture arrived in Cyprus from outside Cyprus and went on to subsume and replace entirely the PRIOR Cypriot culture that WAS native to Cyprus, such that it ceased to exist at all.

Your talking about culture, I'm talking about the natives. Are the aborigines no more native to Australia now because they may speak English too or adopted some of the wests culture because the whites invaded? What does this have to do with the TC community not showing respect to the natives anyway?

How innocent were these innocent people if their politics was racist and supportive of apartheid?

So innocent TC who defied the TC leadership and TMT efforts to segregate and separate TC from GC in the period 63-68 and as a result of such defiance were murdered by GC, like my own uncle, these murders should, according to you, be discounted, ignored, forgotten, excused or justified because 'they supported apartheid' ? My uncle was murdered because he did NOT support segregation and separation of TC and GC in this period. You say these things and talk of respect ?

No, I was asking a question. Those individuals that did not support apartheid or segregation or discrimination and no democracy for Cyprus risked their lives for a worthy cause in my opinion. but this was not the politics of the TC community as a whole, at the time. Just a few. Now, loop back and re-evaluate your first two responses, above. because, the Cyprus problem does not have its roots solely in separation and segregation. This is the present day result of an apartheid and colonialism that came before it.

Response in blue

[Lordo]

you first need to get a life maximos you little fascist.

[Maximus]

you first need to get a life maximos you little fascist.

noo ne accused you of having a brain and spending your whole life trolling on here did they vordo?

[Lordo]

this is my thread you pea brained pipsqueak.

[Maximus]

So what you facist ninconpoop?

you started this forum handle (lordo) around the same time as me and you have made nearly 3 times as many (brainless) posts. <---- new bit of information.

[Lordo]

lear to touch type you single brain celled amoeba.

[Sotos]

Greek culture in Cyprus is no more native to Cyprus than Maori culture is native to New Zealand. Greek culture arrived in Cyprus from outside Cyprus and went on to subsume and replace entirely the PRIOR Cypriot culture that WAS native to Cyprus, such that it ceased to exist at all.

Everybody came from outside of Cyprus... that was the era before nations... there were a lot of human migrations. And different people lived together in Cyprus for centuries and parts of their culture are incorporated in ours. In our whole region... which is the birthplace of civilization... we are probably the most ancient ethnic group that still exists. Some might think of Egyptians, but today the people of Egypt are Arabs, which is actually a different ethnic group than the ancient Egyptians.

My uncle was murdered because he did NOT support segregation and separation of TC and GC in this period.

How certain are you that he was killed by GCs? Because TCs that did not support segregation and separation were often the targets of TMT.

Telling TC that those innocents murdered pre 74 was because they were descendants of Ottoman invaders in 1571 and thus 'had it comming', or those innocents murdered during 74 were excused because Turkey invaded or that you should have killed way more TC that you did, are these all facets of 'respect' ? You want respect but are you willing to offer it?

What the Ottomans did is relevant only when some people want to play the "who started it" game. I mean to find out who started it we have to start from the begging of our interaction... and 3+ centuries of unprovoked Ottoman oppression against us answers that question. But our feelings toward you had little to do with the past and a lot to do with the events at the time. Siding with the British, threatening us with partition, insisting on things that were unfair for the majority etc. About the other point that we should have killed way more Turks (in general) than we did in 1974... that is just the ugly truth of war ... to win it you have to kill people... the more you kill the more chances you have to win... if you have nukes and you can destroy whole cities of your enemy then your chances of winning are even higher. Nobody ever lost a war because they killed too many of their enemies. You lose a war when you can't kill enough of them to force them to accept defeat.

[erolz66]

Everybody came from outside of Cyprus...

And the first ones to come and the culture they developed can be said to be 'native' to Cyprus. Thus Greek culture is not native to Cyprus any more than Turkish culture which came later, or Maori culture is to New Zealand. To claim they are is to just distort the meaning of the word native. Still denying that a dictionary defines the meaning of a word in a given language when your 'narrative' requires you to do so is nothing new for you is it Sotos ?

How certain are you that he was killed by GCs? Because TCs that did not support segregation and separation were often the targets of TMT.

That you even ask this question highlights exactly the point I was making about expecting and wanting respect but not being prepared to offer it yourself. It also yet again highlights how your whole world view is defined by the needs of your narrative. Your narrative requires that either he was not innocent (GiG / Oracle's preferred response - he must have been a TMT terrorist) or if he was innocent then it was probably TC that killed him and not GC. The truth, the actual reality is secondary to this narrative requirement. My uncle was not killed in 'secret' by persons unknown. He was taken in broad day light by armed men in front of many witnesses from his place of work. These men were not 'masked', everyone knew who they were. His fellow Cypriots that he worked with (GC) knew who the men who took him were and what they were and what would happen to THEM if they interfered. From that point on he was never seen again until his remains were finally recovered from a well in Ayia Napa and identified by the CMP. So you go ahead and believe that this group of armed men taking people from their place of work in broad daylight in a GC controlled area were 'TMT' or that the armed men who took him that day were not the ones who subsequently murdered him for no other reason that he was the wrong kind of Cypriot but instead dropped him off somewhere safely and then later but before any one else saw him TMT murdered him. Or that he must have been a TMT terrorist himself. You believe these things and present them as 'theories' here if you want (and as others have here every single time I have related my uncles story) as your narrative requires you to do - but do not do so and then talk to me of 'respect'.

I will tell you another truth that will not sit well with your narratives requirements. Before my uncles murder my father (then living in England) his brother in law had pleaded and argued with him to not keep going to work as if everything was normal. My father made such arguments to his brother in law following events of dec 63 NOT because my father believed in the division of Cyprus or 'apartheid'. He made such arguments with his brother in law because he believed it was not safe for my uncle to continue working 'as normal' in Cyprus following the out break of violence in Dec 63, that by continuing to go to work as if everything was normal and not staying in the safety of a TC 'enclave' he was putting his life at risk. Which in this case proved to be correct. Your narrative requires that any TC who fled to an enclave post Dec 63, any TC that told others TC to do so and remain in such, did so SOLELY because they wanted to support an agenda of the enforced division of Cyprus. You simply refuse to accept the truth that there could be and was any motivation for such that actually was about genuine concern for safety. This refusal is nothing new, it has been and continues to be the dominating and overriding approach by many and certainly the loudest GC voices here on this forum and I do not expect any different having been here for over 10 years now. However I do say do not perpetuate this propaganda and then talk to me of 'respect' and expect anything in return from me except disgust.

What the Ottomans did is relevant only when some people want to play the "who started it" game. I mean to find out who started it we have to start from the begging of our interaction... and 3+ centuries of unprovoked Ottoman oppression against us answers that question. But our feelings toward you had little to do with the past and a lot to do with the events at the time. Siding with the British, threatening us with partition, insisting on things that were unfair for the majority etc.

The 'who started it' game as you call it is the wrong question. The question is do we want to STOP it or do we want to just keep perpetuating it. Which do you want Sotos ?

About the other point that we should have killed way more Turks (in general) than we did in 1974... that is just the ugly truth of war ... to win it you have to kill people... the more you kill the more chances you have to win... if you have nukes and you can destroy whole cities of your enemy then your chances of winning are even higher. Nobody ever lost a war because they killed too many of their enemies. You lose a war when you can't kill enough of them to force them to accept defeat.

And is that how you see it when a TC poster posts that the Ottomans should have done a better job of wiping out Greek culture in Cyprus and if they had we would not have a Cyprus problem today ? That such is just a passive neutral description of the 'ugly truth' of invasion and subjugation of peoples as it occurred in 1571 onwards ? Or would you see it somewhat different in that context ?