Cyprus-Forum.com

[cypriotnado]

Sotos do you have a picture of General Grivas over your fireplace.

The Kosovan Albanians are a minority in Serbia. Many Serbs infact see Kosovo as the birhplace of Serbianism. Albanian Kosovans have only in recent history become a majority in Kosovo - yet here they are with recognised statehood after a federal solution failed.

Your views Sotos are those of a few fanatics in Cyprus - they are unrepresenative. All main Cypriot political parties support a Bi comunal FEDERAL solution as does the world. If the talks fail and two states emerge do you think Greek Cypriots would vote to become part of Greece. I dont think so, not anymore. That is because they to have discovered self determination as Cypriots. Many Turkish Cypriots may have infact been Christian converts - orthodox or latin. So how do you differenciate - with DNA?? Cyprus has no indigenous peoples. All are descended from invaders and colonialists of some kind

[Sotos]

My views are quite representative and not related to those of Grivas. When I talk about enosis I am referring to the 50s, not today. In the 50s the vast majority of Cypriots wanted union with Greece and this was prevented by foreign Colonists and their local partners in crime... this is a historical fact. Albanians didn't become a majority in Kosovo overnight by invasion, ethnic cleansing and stealing of land... it was a gradual thing that started centuries ago. And still the UN and many states do not recognize Kosovo. Your pseudo state did not get even a single recognition (apart from the invader) and it has been declared decades ago!

[cypriotnado]

My views are quite representative and not related to those of Grivas. When I talk about enosis I am referring to the 50s, not today. In the 50s the vast majority of Cypriots wanted union with Greece and this was prevented by foreign Colonists and their local partners in crime... this is a historical fact. Albanians didn't become a majority in Kosovo overnight by invasion, ethnic cleansing and stealing of land... it was a gradual thing that started centuries ago. And still the UN and many states do not recognize Kosovo. Your pseudo state did not get even a single recognition (apart from the invader) and it has been declared decades ago!

I think your right abt the 50's but who cares abt that now. Its no longer an aspiration of most Greek Cypriots. Most of whom these days prefer to be identified as Cypriots and not Greeks! Majorities were formed in many Nations by invasion or colonisation. Ie Canada the French became a minority even though they themselves were invaders. All of South America, the Caribbean etc. The world does in the end rightly or wrongly recognise ethnic cleansing and colonisation because most nation states are a product of it in some form. The UK with Germanic tribes ie Anglo Saxons invading Celts. In recent history, Kaliningrad or East Poland annexed by Russia. The list is endless - Cyprus will not solve itself by accepting the status quo and hoping for the best. The Cyprus you want pre 74 independent or part of Greece will not return. The world does not care enough.

[Sotos]

I think your right abt the 50's but who cares abt that now. Its no longer an aspiration of most Greek Cypriots.

Erolz seems to care ... so tell that to him!

Most of whom these days prefer to be identified as Cypriots and not Greeks! Majorities were formed in many Nations by invasion or colonisation. Ie Canada the French became a minority even though they themselves were invaders. All of South America, the Caribbean etc. The world does in the end rightly or wrongly recognise ethnic cleansing and colonisation because most nation states are a product of it in some form. The UK with Germanic tribes ie Anglo Saxons invading Celts. In recent history, Kaliningrad or East Poland annexed by Russia. The list is endless - Cyprus will not solve itself by accepting the status quo and hoping for the best. The Cyprus you want pre 74 independent or part of Greece will not return. The world does not care enough.

Those things you refer to happened long time ago. Now such practices are not acceptable which is why your pseudo state is not recognized. The world does not care enough for us but it doesn't care about you either. So don't hope for recognition. Between some fucked up "solution" and the status quo I'd rather keep the status quo.

[cypriotnado]

I disagree the world is as fucked up now if not worse! Your views are set and I respect that, but thankfully they are the views of a minority as the majority of political parties and one would think those who gave them a mandate in Cyprus are supporting a Federal solution. I suspect we will have a referendum next year so time will tell.The only thing I will say is that i believe you and your like are playing into the hands of Nationalist Turks because I suspect they are making all the right noises in the hope that people like you will scupper a deal. They will then turn around and say look we tried and tried. Will that mean the status quo continues indefinitely, I somehow doubt it!

[tsukoui]

I disagree the world is as fucked up now if not worse! Your views are set and I respect that, but thankfully they are the views of a minority as the majority of political parties and one would think those who gave them a mandate in Cyprus are supporting a Federal solution. I suspect we will have a referendum next year so time will tell.The only thing I will say is that i believe you and your like are playing into the hands of Nationalist Turks because I suspect they are making all the right noises in the hope that people like you will scupper a deal. They will then turn around and say look we tried and tried. Will that mean the status quo continues indefinitely, I somehow doubt it!

I would say that the majority of Cypriots do not want a BBF they want a unified Cyprus. They will not reject it though because it is the least bad thing on the table. The problem is as you say that the world does not care enough.

[Sotos]

Well said Tsuk!! I will just make a correction: We will not reject BBF IF it is the least bad thing on the table. Because the status quo is also "on the table", and if the "solution" is worst than the status quo then we WILL reject any BBF as we did with the Annan plan. So cypriotnado if you want BBF tell your leaders to make some serious compromises so a new BBF plan will be clearly better for our side than what the Annan plan was. The solution should be clearly better than the problem. Otherwise forget about BBF.

[Lordo]

I disagree the world is as fucked up now if not worse! Your views are set and I respect that, but thankfully they are the views of a minority as the majority of political parties and one would think those who gave them a mandate in Cyprus are supporting a Federal solution. I suspect we will have a referendum next year so time will tell.The only thing I will say is that i believe you and your like are playing into the hands of Nationalist Turks because I suspect they are making all the right noises in the hope that people like you will scupper a deal. They will then turn around and say look we tried and tried. Will that mean the status quo continues indefinitely, I somehow doubt it!

I would say that the majority of Cypriots do not want a BBF they want a unified Cyprus. They will not reject it though because it is the least bad thing on the table. The problem is as you say that the world does not care enough.

majority of which cypriots dear boy. if you start measuring on basis of one man one vote, move on it aint gona happen. next.

[tsukoui]

I disagree the world is as fucked up now if not worse! Your views are set and I respect that, but thankfully they are the views of a minority as the majority of political parties and one would think those who gave them a mandate in Cyprus are supporting a Federal solution. I suspect we will have a referendum next year so time will tell.The only thing I will say is that i believe you and your like are playing into the hands of Nationalist Turks because I suspect they are making all the right noises in the hope that people like you will scupper a deal. They will then turn around and say look we tried and tried. Will that mean the status quo continues indefinitely, I somehow doubt it!

I would say that the majority of Cypriots do not want a BBF they want a unified Cyprus. They will not reject it though because it is the least bad thing on the table. The problem is as you say that the world does not care enough.

majority of which cypriots dear boy. if you start measuring on basis of one man one vote, move on it aint gona happen. next.

Lord, is it that hard to form a resistance?

[cypriotnado]

Well said Tsuk!! I will just make a correction: We will not reject BBF IF it is the least bad thing on the table. Because the status quo is also "on the table", and if the "solution" is worst than the status quo then we WILL reject any BBF as we did with the Annan plan. So cypriotnado if you want BBF tell your leaders to make some serious compromises so a new BBF plan will be clearly better for our side than what the Annan plan was. The solution should be clearly better than the problem. Otherwise forget about BBF.

Actually I agree with you. Its what I have been saying all along. At the end of the day the respective communities will decide in a referendum. And as you say if its unacceptable as Annan was to one community it will be rejected.

PS I will phone all the leaders tonight and demand they make compromises.