Cyprus-Forum.com

[cypezokyli]

i was just reading about a new book from digklis "bitter truths".
it appears to be a part of a new generation of greek and gc writers which give a completely different picture of the past.
a picture that sais : ofcource the foreign powers played a role, in no way we try to give excuses for the ongoing occupation
BUT
we missed a number of chances to have a peaceful cyprus and the fault lies on the nationalism and stupidity of our leadership. and by that i mean the gc leadership.
1948 we didnt like
1956 with harding (already posted it in the EOKA thread)
1963
1967-72 the bicomunal dialogs between clerides and denktash.

we blew everything up, each time demanding for something more, getting always sth less and then blaming the others for being their fault.

as for our leadership :
the myth of makarios is falling. not only he caried a number of nationalist feelings but he had a risk loving tendency in negotiating that never brought us sth else from more tension.
the situation for grivas is even worse. from being a "hero" he was turned already from before to an extreme nationalist being responsible for the killing of greeks, gc and tcs before, during, and after eoka. the new idea of grivas is though : his political IQ was not more than a five year old kid, and thats already an insult for five years olds
and as for akel. ofcource akel never made mistakes. because it never did anything. it has always been a passive viewer of cyprus falling into nationalism while akel was applauding.

our blame in this story is huge.
the least we can do is apologise and hopefully learn from our mistakes.
i am afraid that we dont

[Piratis]

cypezokyli, I agree with what you said in general. But you have to be more clear with the "our blame in this story is huge".

"Huge" is a relative term. How "huge" is it compared to the blame of the others involved (UK,Turkey,Greece,US.TCs)?

I don't think that anybody is unmistakable and perfect. And we certainly have to learn from our mistakes and ask forgiveness for our crimes.

Beyond that everything should be put in its correct aspect. Do the GCs deserve punishment as a whole for the mistakes of a few? Can Turkey and UK, who have hugely greater blame, expect rewords on the expense of Greek Cypriots?

[cypezokyli]

if you want it in comparative terms piratis let me put it this way:
if only we, took advantage of any of the opportunities we had, neither turkey nor england could have created all that mess, even if they wanted to.
and i am not just referring to the eoka b minority. i am referring to makarios choises.

[Piratis]

I didn't see your comparative terms.
I could also say: If the Ottomans and the British didn't occupy our island in the first place we wouldn't have this mess.

if only we, took advantage of any of the opportunities we had, neither turkey nor england could have created all that mess, even if they wanted to.

Not taking advantage of an opportunity carries a certain weight of blame. Committing a crime carries a different amount of blame depending on the type and magnitude of the crime. You can not equate everything.

If you will compare share of blame you have to separate things and give each one its correct weight.

For example if a criminal shoots a policeman who was not wearing his bullet proof vest as he should, and as a result he dies, then you can't say that the omission of the policeman is equated with the crime of the criminal.

We had some lost opportunities and we committed crimes as well. However when you compare our share of the blame with the blame of Turkey, UK, US and even Greece, the share of blame on Cypriots (both TCs and GCs) is small.

Therefore one thing is to recognize the facts, admit our mistakes and ask for forgiveness for our crimes, and a different thing is to falsely put almost all the blame on Greek Cypriots as an excuse for the crimes that were committed and continue to be committed against us.

[zan]

My conspiracy theory is that Makarios was ready to put right his wrongs and was killed by Greece??????



1977 Makarios-Denktas Accords
Cyprus Table of Contents
After intensive efforts by Waldheim, Makarios and Denktas met on January 27, 1977, the first meeting between the two men since the Turkish Cypriots had withdrawn from the government of the republic in 1964. By then Makarios was leaning toward negotiation on the basis of a bizonal federation, provided that there be some Turkish Cypriot territorial concessions. He continued to insist on a strong central government and freedom of movement for all Cypriots. He demanded 80 percent of the territory, proportionate to the size of the Greek Cypriot population, but indicated that he might accept 75 percent if it included Varosha, the formerly prosperous tourist area of Famagusta to which 35,000 Greek Cypriots wanted to return. Denktas apparently indicated readiness to consider about 68 percent.

On February 12, 1977, the two men met and agreed on four guidelines. The first was that Cyprus would be an independent, nonaligned, bicommunal federal republic. Second, the territory under the administration of each community was to be discussed in light of economic viability, productivity, and property rights. Third, questions of principle such as freedom of movement and settlement, rights of ownership, and certain special matters were to be open for discussion, taking into consideration the fundamental decision for a bicommunal federal system and certain practical difficulties. Finally, the powers and functions of a central government would be such as to safeguard the unity of the country.

This achievement raised hopes among Cyprus's foreign friends that a settlement could be reached. These hopes were dashed when President Makarios, the central figure in the Greek Cypriot community, died of a heart attack in August 1977

http://countrystudies.us/cyprus/58.htm

[Viewpoint]

I didn't see your comparative terms.
I could also say: If the Ottomans and the British didn't occupy our island in the first place we wouldn't have this mess.

if only we, took advantage of any of the opportunities we had, neither turkey nor england could have created all that mess, even if they wanted to.

Not taking advantage of an opportunity carries a certain weight of blame. Committing a crime carries a different amount of blame depending on the type and magnitude of the crime. You can not equate everything.

If you will compare share of blame you have to separate things and give each one its correct weight.

For example if a criminal shoots a policeman who was not wearing his bullet proof vest as he should, and as a result he dies, then you can't say that the omission of the policeman is equated with the crime of the criminal.

We had some lost opportunities and we committed crimes as well. However when you compare our share of the blame with the blame of Turkey, UK, US and even Greece, the share of blame on Cypriots (both TCs and GCs) is small.

Therefore one thing is to recognize the facts, admit our mistakes and ask for forgiveness for our crimes, and a different thing is to falsely put almost all the blame on Greek Cypriots as an excuse for the crimes that were committed and continue to be committed against us.

Piratis hand on heart do you really feel that your viewpoint will get you anywhere?? do you think that sticking to your ideals will bring a solution or do you think that will fuel the current stalemate. And if you are so right then why arent you able to solve anything??? Your reasoning must be flawed and its high time you sat down and realized that you are currently living on a divided island where you have to compromise to find a solution and the longer you stay entrenched with no flexiblity you will continue to bang your head against a brick wall.