Cyprus-Forum.com

[B25]

......and apparently is what the majority of Cypriots want, so might as well make it work and avoid future problems.

Nikita, you need to qualify this statement, because it is bollocks.

The majority do not support this, we have been led down this path by traitors who will now attempt to get us to approve it.

If you cannot qualify it then take it back, you also mafe a similar cooment in the follow post, please don't.

BBF=Partition and this is what we are being setup for.

Over and out

[Lordo]

......and apparently is what the majority of Cypriots want, so might as well make it work and avoid future problems.

Nikita, you need to qualify this statement, because it is bollocks.

The majority do not support this, we have been led down this path by traitors who will now attempt to get us to approve it.

If you cannot qualify it then take it back, you also mafe a similar cooment in the follow post, please don't.

BBF=Partition and this is what we are being setup for.

Over and out

next may you will find out what the majority support you better get a one ticket to greaceland.

[Nikitas]

B25,

I said "apparently" and that is based on the polls published in the GC press, on editorial comments, on politicians statements. All GC parties bar one support BBF thus giving the picture of a society apparently approving it as a solution.

For years, on this forum, as well as in comments columns in the GC press, I posted the question "how does BBF differ from partition" and got no answers. Personally I am still puzzled.

I copy pasted statements by Soysal, senior adviser to Denktash, re the possible future dissolution of the new BBF entity leading to a final partition. I posted it because the statement shows that the TC-Turkish side is planning on it. Inorder to bring it about they will have to invent a problem, and the demarcation line, and the SBA issue, is a golden opportunity.

Do not be surprised if at some point in the future, the British announce the disbanding of the Akrotiri base and we see that they have claims on it. It sounds unthinkable, just as unthinkable that the whole GC political establishment would promote BBF, yet it happened.

In case some think this is a cynical approach, just refer to the celebrations over the green line and the visit by Erdo, now, during what they all say is the most hopeful ever round of talks, and extract from that whatever reasonable inference you want. The message I am getting is that no matter what the solution is called the neighbor in the north will be Turkey, not the TCs, nor the settlers. The demarcation line is an interim solution, for them. It should be for us too if we take survival seriously.

Now if anyone wants to prove me wrong, go ahead and explain the celebrations and the visit at this time. I really would like to be proven wrong.

[B25]

Now you are making up dates out of thin air.
I dont need a ticket to anywhere, because no such bullshit plan is going to be accepted.
Perhaps you should return to mongolia!

[Lordo]

B25,

I said "apparently" and that is based on the polls published in the GC press, on editorial comments, on politicians statements. All GC parties bar one support BBF thus giving the picture of a society apparently approving it as a solution.

For years, on this forum, as well as in comments columns in the GC press, I posted the question "how does BBF differ from partition" and got no answers. Personally I am still puzzled.

I copy pasted statements by Soysal, senior adviser to Denktash, re the possible future dissolution of the new BBF entity leading to a final partition. I posted it because the statement shows that the TC-Turkish side is planning on it. Inorder to bring it about they will have to invent a problem, and the demarcation line, and the SBA issue, is a golden opportunity.

Do not be surprised if at some point in the future, the British announce the disbanding of the Akrotiri base and we see that they have claims on it. It sounds unthinkable, just as unthinkable that the whole GC political establishment would promote BBF, yet it happened.

In case some think this is a cynical approach, just refer to the celebrations over the green line and the visit by Erdo, now, during what they all say is the most hopeful ever round of talks, and extract from that whatever reasonable inference you want. The message I am getting is that no matter what the solution is called the neighbor in the north will be Turkey, not the TCs, nor the settlers. The demarcation line is an interim solution, for them. It should be for us too if we take survival seriously.

Now if anyone wants to prove me wrong, go ahead and explain the celebrations and the visit at this time. I really would like to be proven wrong.

if dikelya base is given back why should the land not go back to where it came from. your gc villages who lost their land will get theirs and pila and pergama will get theirs. i see now why you want a straight line so you can claim all of it. no chance my friend. the line will follow the tc and gc villages to maximise the return of the original owners. as to defence, we dont need to defend. you start troubkle and see what you get. tcs will not start trouble why should they. you people are so stupid. in 1963 you accused tmt for starting the troubles. tcs were set up with such a good deal in the roc why the hell would they ruin it. this will be no different. tcs life will improve so much after the agreement why would they start anything. sba land will go back to the original owners.

b25 if you dont by your ticket now, the prices will rocket when after the agreement.

[B25]

Dream on old boy!

[Nikitas]

You think that the jagged line is a disadvantage to the GCs, you will find it is an equally big disadvantage to all. Those foreign forces you want for security will carry out patrols and inspections along that jagged border, on both sides. Water lines will have to cros the "other" region and if landowners refuse then in which courts and under what regime will there be compulsory purchase orders?

As for Pyla and Pergamos they are both mixed vilalges, so how do you take the initiative to include them in the TC region without asking the GC inhabitants first? Pyla also houses a large repatriated community of ex UK GCs. Along those lines it is just as insulting to include those hundreds of other GC villages in the trunc without asking their inhabitants. But since you showed the way it can be used in other places too.

THe funny thing about the British is their insistence that the Ayios Nikolaos road should have been considered SBA territory linking their Famagusta residences to the Dhekelia base. What they considered a necessity for themselves was disregarded in the Annan plan and they put in a nonsense clause about the right of roads, water lines etc.

[umit07]

Pergamos is not a mixed village Nikitas, it did house 1-2 GC families in the early 1920's according to my father. As for the the possibility of the bases, I suspect Dhekelia could be returned, it is running on a skeleton crew as is. I suspect that TC's will take into consideration the defense aspect of any agreed boundary, as a precaution. I don't understand your point?

[Nikitas]

My point is that this BBF thing should be drawn up so that it minimises any chances of future conflict.

The major element in this direction is to have clear, easily policed demarcation lines, and this inorder to prevent silly disputes, as in having "teats" of one territory intruding in the other and causing problems in utility lines and road plans, as well as in allowing all citizens to know where they are at any moment. I said above, some citizens will want to live their lives with no contact with members of the other community, it is their right and those meandering teats of the Annan plan did not take that aspect into account.

In my perception, this BBF thing is not likely to allow pockets of the "other" community in the contiguous region of the other, ie having Pergamos or Lurugina as isolated pockets surrounded by GCs. Any such move would go against the Bi in bizonality and hark back to the days of the separate municipalities which TCs now reject.

And finally there is the possibility, as Soysal had pointed out, that the partnership might not work and the two constituent regions decide to become two very separate entities.An irregular border in such a situation will be a nightmare. and it is in this context that the defence aspects arise.The more clear and defencible the demarcation line the more easily it can be turned into an international frontier.

What I do not understand is the objection to such an arrangement. As long as TCs get their percentage of territory what difference would it make to them if that issue remains to be settled between the GCs and the British?

See why I say that the territory should be settled on the basis of the ISLAND and not the RoC! And why the settlement must be accompanied by a clause where the TCs declare that they relinquish claims to the rest of the ISLAND outside the limits of their constituent region. The SBAs will from that time on sit on GC territory and they are a potential asset of the south. The emphasis on potential, because we do not really if and when they might be relinquished by the British.

Hearing objections from the residents of Pergamos, when the far more numerous owners of Morphou are told to shut up because there has been "investment" in their property and that jusitifes their being kept out, does sound a little strange. The notion of "the owners decide" sounds hypocritical at this stage in the game.

[Kikapu]

Nikitas,

I have a feeling that as soon as there is a permanent settlement in Cyprus, the GCs will want to get rid of the SBA's, pronto, either by legal means or by "bullying" tactics. For this reason alone, assuming the British want to maintain the SBA's in Cyprus, I can't see the British agreeing to hand over the land where the SBA's are just to the GCs. Once again the British will use the "divide & rule" tactics between the TCs and GCs, especially with the Hydrocarbons in the southern coast of island.

Turkey would give her right arm to be able to have any land in the southern part of the island to be part of the north state, in the event that the two states become independent in the future. Turkey will be able to then extend her EEZ claims half way to Egypt to the south and to East and West from that point also. It all depends if the British and Turkey have some unpleasant plans up their sleeves for the RoC after a settlement, much like in ’74.

In my point of view, any BBF settlement needs to be a Federation system much like the USA, Germany and few others with ALL the EU’s principles in place from day one. This will make the north and south states joined at the hip, which neither of the states will be able to go their own separate way without the consent of the other state. If one of the sides do not accept these conditions, to me, that would be a red flag of what's to come in the future, which is the division of the island, by force if necessary.