Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz66]

The fact is that Germany did try to take the whole Europe militarily and they committed genocides and atrocities ... far worst than what ISIS has committed so far.

An atrocity by definition is atrocious and the very concept of 'ranking' one atrocity as 'far worse' or 'more atrocious' than another is in my view a flawed in concept in and off itself.

Probably it was a mistake for Greece (and many others) to join the EU but they found out too late.

So according to you Greece (and many others) has 'found out' that joining the EU was a mistake, yet the majority of the Greek population (up until this weekend at least) still WANT to be in the EU. Funny that.

... so to say that a country can just choose to leave is an oversimplification.

Joining it is not simple, leaving it would not be 'simple' but that is not the point. The point is, in light of your claim that the EU for Germany today is just a new means to the same end that was sought under Nazi military action, there is a fundamental difference between being invaded militarily by Germany and choosing to join and remain in a political and economic union that German is a part of. A reality you seemingly still choose to ignore to fit your narrative.

If there was an EU wide referendum the question would not be about Greece specifically but more general about the fiscal policies of EZ.

Says who ? You or Greece alone would not get to define what a referendum done in another EZ member state would be or what an EZ wide one might be. A country like Estonia to take one example could very realistically have a referendum on the question along the lines of 'Should further Estonian tax payers money be used to offer a third bailout to Greece. Yes or No.

For example printing more money and abandoning strict austerity ... following the example that USA used to come out of the crisis and abandoning the German model.

Er the EU has and still is 'printing more money' as the USA (and others) did as a result of the global crisis in 2008. Yes it took them longer than most to organise and agree such, but that is natural for a union of many nation states compared with a single sovereign nation.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/03/09/news/ec ... ee-things/

Better late than never! Europe is finally getting the massive monetary stimulus launched years ago by the United States, Britain and Japan.

So once again, your narrative requires that the EU did not take measures akin to those taken by the USA, but instead choose "strict austerity", when the actual reality is the EU has and is taking exactly the same kind of measures that the USA (and the Uk and Japan) took to a very similar degree to which they took them, just a bit later. With you Sotos when the needs of your narrative clash with factual reality, factual reality always looses.

[miltiades]

Erolz66 has never posted nonsensical posts on this forum, in fact his posts are by far more sensible than those of many forumers.

The eloquent manner which all of his posts display is admirable. He makes sense and portrays himself as a true Cypriot.
Education by itself is never enough , common sense and wisdom are ingredients that make one a sensible, unbiased and above all highly intelligent individual.

He supports a united Cyprus and that is good enough for me. Mate you are a TRUE Cypriot, not one aligned to a foreign motherland like some on this forum.
You have my respect.

[Get Real!]

The eloquent manner which all of his posts display is admirable. He makes sense and portrays himself as a true Cypriot.
Education by itself is never enough , common sense and wisdom are ingredients that make one a sensible, unbiased and above all highly intelligent individual.

Yes, he’s the exact opposite of you!

[miltiades]

The eloquent manner which all of his posts display is admirable. He makes sense and portrays himself as a true Cypriot.
Education by itself is never enough , common sense and wisdom are ingredients that make one a sensible, unbiased and above all highly intelligent individual.

Yes, he’s the exact opposite of you!

Psycho, take you pill and shut up .

[erolz66]

Erolz66 has never posted .....

Thank you for your kind words.

[Sotos]

You are just trivializing the problem trying to put the whole blame on Greece. The German policies have been criticized by major economists and the measures imposed on Greece multiplied the problem instead of solving it. And while Greece has the biggest problem it is not the only one that is affected. The recent changes are too little, too late. Even the article that you posted clearly says that those measures will not help Greece. Estonian tax payers have a net gain from EU. Cyprus until the crisis was a net contributor. That is how EU works. Not to mention that bailout money are loans, not contributions. And of course it is convenient for you to equate a genocide of millions with a far lesser crime! No... not all atrocities are the same!!

[erolz66]

You are just trivializing the problem trying to put the whole blame on Greece.

No. I try to apportion 'blame' (though criticism would be a more accurate word) to those I feel are deserving of it REGARDLESS of their nationality or ethnicity. For the record my personal view is that all parties have made mistakes and miscalculations in the handling of this crisis, individual nations as well as the EZ and EU itself and the IMF. I also seek to counter those pushing a narrative based on blame or criticism and denial of blame or criticism based solely ON nationality or ethnicity, like you and GiG are doing. Can you honestly read what I have actually written and compare it with what you and GiG have written and say having done so you genuinely believe that I have tried 'put the whole blame on Greece' more that you have tried to put it on Germany?

And of course it is convenient for you to equate a genocide of millions with a far lesser crime! No... not all atrocities are the same!!

Not all atrocities are the same but they are all atrocious. Or do you believe that what GC suffered as a result of the events of 74 was 'less atrocious' than (insert here any other atrocity you care to mention). I do hope we are not going to now descend into another discussion that involves you having to redefine the dictionary definition of a word to suit your needs, though I fear we may.

[cypriotnado]

The Greek govt is not humiliated by begging for others people money, not humiliated by overspending others people money, but they are humiliated, if they have pay others people money back

The UK may be asked to contribute 1 billion compared to Germans over 80 billion. Cameron is refusing. The Brits media will not be as polite as the Germans or French.

[Sotos]

I never said that the Greek governments were blameless The Greek governments have the biggest responsibility of creating a weak economy that got into much bigger than average trouble when the global crisis hit some years ago. But at that point the EZ could have taken measures to recover from the crisis and protect the EZ countries which were hit the hardest. But instead of that the EZ under the leadership of Germany went for some strict austerity, refused to print money and made the problem many times worst for Greece and other countries that were most affected by the crisis.

Are you going to play with words again regarding the "atrocious"? It is like a murder... Can a murderer be less or more murderous? Maybe it is not grammatically correct in English to say that somebody is "more murderous" than another murderer. I don't know, and I don't care. What matters is the essence not how you say it. And with murder you have "1st degree murder", "2nd degree murder" etc, and you also have "mass murderers"... these things are very different and similarly atrocities can be very different in the severity.

[erolz66]

I never said that the Greek governments were blameless

No what you said was "The Germans tried the ISIS way and it didn't work out for them. Now they are trying to control Europe by different means." and that "What led them to do this [try to take the whole Europe militarily whilst they committed genocides and atrocities] was not just some momentary madness but deeper geopolitical interests that still hold true today."

Can you really not see how such assertions can be seen as 'trying to lame the blame in Germany' ?

Are you going to play with words again regarding the "atrocious"? It is like a murder... Can a murderer be less or more murderous? Maybe it is not grammatically correct in English to say that somebody is "more murderous" than another murderer. I don't know, and I don't care. What matters is the essence not how you say it. And with murder you have "1st degree murder", "2nd degree murder" etc, and you also have "mass murderers"... these things are very different and similarly atrocities can be very different in the severity.

Accepting that a English language dictionary definition of a word is the only sensible non partisan way od defining what a word means, is not 'playing with words'. Insisting that an English language dictionary definition of a word in English is not its actual meaning, but that its actual meaning is the that of a Greek word that the English won may have derived from is playing with words.

So according to you the atrocities suffered by GC as a result of the events of 74 could be fairly and accurately described as massively 'less atrocious' than those suffered by say Jews and other groups under NAZI Germany ? Do I understand you correctly ? For the record my view would be that they were atrocious for both examples and it makes no sense to try and rank one 'above' or 'below' another.