Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

German Parliament approves bailout of 86 billion euros for Greece !!

"Merkel tells parliament Greece must be kept in euro, with “chaos” the only other option"

I wonder when the next one will come !!

[Pyrpolizer]

This is a fairly long video but well worth watching. It is understandable and gives the background to the questionable way the TROIKA has acted since 2010 in Greece mainly but also other EZ countries. It covers their involvement in Cyprus at about 1h 17m ..... that was an eye opener ....... I didn't realise this until seeing the video.

The Trail of the Troika - A must-see documentary to understand the situation in Greece.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article42394.htm

Good video, I watched the first 43 minutes of it, I ll watch the rest tomorrow. I agree to most of what you said, i keep disagreeing on some, but let's not keep this never ending.
I will reply about the drachma later also.

[Nikitas]

Clear video, the best so far on the crisis and its aftermath.

[miltiades]

" " Like it or not Germany is at the helm of both, the Germans are not naïve or stupid, they must know and fully comprehend the severe consequences that would undoubtedly follow such an event."

Merkel seems to agree with my above comment made on July 5th !!

" "Merkel tells parliament Greece must be kept in euro, with “chaos” the only other option"

[kurupetos]

Still NO!!!

[Pyrpolizer]

What are your views on a New Drachma either as a replacement for the Euro or run as a parallel currency?

Very informative video.It revealed among other things that the Troika individuals make money for their own pockets out of these all out sales.

The austerity measures are not bad per se but they cause unemployment and lower the GDP. Within the current economic system where the State of Greece is big compared to the private enterprise any austerity measures should be such to allow the private enterprise to grow enough to absorb the diminishing public personnel. For example diminishing the public sector by say 10% per year, with an increase in unemployment by 5% would be a normal/healthy procedure. This could be done even within the Euro. However due to Greece's huge dept Toika has set a rate for this procedure that is totally cancerous resulting to 30%+ average unemployment, 50% among the young.

Tsipras said the EZ and the Institutions have planned everything in detail, so even if they would revert to drachma they would suffocate them.
However after Schäuble's own proposal that they should go back to drachma I really doubt Tsipras was telling the truth. I mean there is no other way! Schäuble is right and I don't think they have any plans to suffocate Greece.

We all know that returning to Drachma Greece will default hence all debts will be put aside.
The immediate effect of returning to drachma is it will cause inflation. Inflation will create jobs, jobs will reduce unemployment. Still however the private enterprise will continue getting milked to sustain the huge State. People will not be unemployed anymore but they will be getting nearly half their labor's worth in MONEY. However money is not the only gain from labor, the other half of their underpaid labour will be wealth- which unfortunately will be accumulated by those who run the business to become richer. Assuming the state imposes effective capital control then those richer businessmen they will not have any other option to satisfy their greed other than re-invest them in Greece. Hence more jobs etc etc until everything balances out and laborers get their fair share from their labor in cashable money. When the private enterprise will INITIALLY start absorbing the unemployed through inflation THAT will be the PRECISE time to reduce the big State.
If they set a target to reduce the State by say 10% per year then Schäuble is right. Within 5 years Greece will be back on it's feet. And within 10 she will start having amazing growth.
Nikitas said the Greek system actually needs a complete overhaul, but I am convinced that even the minimalistic practice of sticking to the discipline of reducing the State by a certain %/year is enough to bring out miracles.

I am totally against the parallel currency. It will cause an apartheid between the rich and the poor. I will not be surprised if it ends up to luxurious outlets selling e.g new cars, computers, jewelry,etc posting signs saying "Only in Euro cash". It will cause a black market situation in which the poor will have to get Euros to buy one day's of luxury for themselves. No, absolutely not! That would be worse than what was happening in the Soviet Union where everybody was after dollars.

I am almost certain with the current decision Greece will just prolong her people's drama for another 3 years. I wish they get lucky and not be approved by the parliaments of the other 18 states.In which case they will have to follow Schäuble's proposal which is the only sensible way to go imo.

NB. Tsipras leftist ideas of thinking that if he reduces austerity while keeping the big State and re-employing the 400 lady cleaners and 1500 ERT journalists is the right way to go, is blatantly false.

[Zenon33]

German Parliament approves bailout of 86 billion euros for Greece !!

"Merkel tells parliament Greece must be kept in euro, with “chaos” the only other option"

I wonder when the next one will come !!

What does she said with chaos?.
Let's see some data from Cyprus GDP under the Pound. 1984=GDP up by 11%, 1988 and 1989 up by 10%, 1995 up by 11%. Unemployment rate 3%.
Under the Euro (2008-2015) GDP down by 2% aprox and the unemployment rate now is 16%.

So was the Euro really a good thing?. I don't think so.

[Nikitas]

Pyro said:

"Assuming the state imposes effective capital control then those richer businessmen they will not have any other option to satisfy their greed other than re-invest them in Greece."

A huge illicit money export industry was running here in the 70s and 80s. Everyone was at it. The rich had quasi legal ways to do it, ie export money to buy over invoiced real property was one way, there were many others.

The economy would grow if the fetters are removed, the currency is secondary. And as we are often told, going to the drachma does not cancel foreign debt.

Paschos Mandravelis in todays Kathimerini describes the problems faced by former Eleftherotypia journalist Despina Antypa in setting up a new business when she was fired from her paper. Her business had export potential, and orders, but the buraucracy and the vicious tax system got her and she went bankrupt. Paying 100 per cent tax deposit one year in advance is a sure way to lower cash flow and inhibit investment. Her story is indicative of the problems startups face in Greece.

What is urgently needed here is a parliamentary session to abolish useless laws, as they had in the UK some years ago. A new legislative method where no bill can be introduced until the administrative steps needed to implement it are fully worked through. And a ministry of simplification to review and simplify all civil service procedures, along with a ministry of computerisation. These will fix the machine, and until that happens no policy can be implemented no matter what currency the nation has.

[Oceanside50]

A very good video about the Euro crises. There were a few peculiars that I noticed. Why was the finance minister of Greece that signed the Hellenikon deal not allowed to elaborate and cast off, when he said that even though the area under development was sold at half price, the private investment of 7 billion euros would in fact help the economy by creating tax revenues and creating jobs. Why are the Greeks against private investments for their economy? Not one of the interviewees or the commentator wanted to admit that a good deal of this effort by the troika and Brussels is about breaking up of the unions, which would in the long run help the economies of these certain countries be more productive and efficient.

Nikitas wrote:

Paschos Mandravelis in todays Kathimerini describes the problems faced by former Eleftherotypia journalist Despina Antypa in setting up a new business when she was fired from her paper. Her business had export potential, and orders, but the buraucracy and the vicious tax system got her and she went bankrupt. Paying 100 per cent tax deposit one year in advance is a sure way to lower cash flow and inhibit investment. Her story is indicative of the problems startups face in Greece.

this is a fundamental economic problem that faces Greece. Absurd laws and bureaucracy that retard any real growth and innovation. Someone asked, if Steve Jobs and Wozniak were trying to start Apple in Greece, would they have succeeded? The answer is no. Cyprus, after the invasion of 74 was completely devasted. I don't have the exact numbers, but I would say that unemployment was probably over 30% and the GDP was probably reduced by half. The Cypriot Pound was not devalued, during that time. Business regulations, i.e. starting a business were very lenient. People would sell souvakia from the back window of their house, business regulations were lifted, the trucking /transportation industry was deregulated, and foreign investment and the regulations that governed it were also relaxed, thereafter the Cyprus economic miracle happened. Why is this concept absent from the Greek economy?

[miltiades]

Bureaucracy stifles a nations entrepreneurial spirit, it restricts economic growth and discourages new ventures.
Not having been to Greece for almost 30 years I can not comment on the levels of bureaucracy existing in Greece, but having read comments by those who are conversant with the way of life in Greece I can see why the nations finances are in such terrible state.

A couple of years ago, encouraged by my other third in Belarus, I carried out a " feasibility " study into setting up a small business in Belarus, a nation that has an average wage of about 2 to 3 hundred US Dollars per month.

My intention was to set up in an industrial unit , a quails eggs bottling factory, there is an abundance of quails eggs in Belarus at extremely low prices. Having looked at prices in the ME where the consumption is high, I thought I could be on to a winner.

Three months later, having provided my entire family's background, my entire financial records, including my ....medical records, going from office to office, being asked to produce more and more information, I came to the conclusion that my venture which would have given employment to dozens was a no go.

Fuck that I said to my other third.

Its no wonder that the nations economy is at the low end.