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O X I !!!

Feel free to talk about anything that you want.

Re: O X I !!!

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:03 pm

Get Real! wrote:“Tsipras Has Just Destroyed Greece”

This is basically the same proposal as that was just rejected by the Greek people in the referendum…This makes absolutely no sense. The Tsipras Government has just:
• renegotiated itself into the same position it was in two months ago;
• set massively false expectations with the Greek public;
• destroyed the Greek banking system, and
• destroyed what was left of Greek political capital in EU.
If this deal gets through the Greek Parliament, and it could given everyone other than the ruling party and Golden Dawn are in favour of austerity, then Greece has just destroyed itself to no purpose.


“Syriza standing up to the Troika was tantamount to sending graduate students against a Panzer division. The outcome was predictable.”


“Syriza has thus managed to deliver to the neoliberals a victory more complete than they could ever have engineered on their own.”


http://themillenniumreport.com/2015/07/ ... ed-greece/

:lol:


So, no actual facts then? :roll:

Here's a fact for you, seeing as you don't recognise them:

Up to €50bn (£35bn) worth of Greek assets will be transferred to a new fund, which will contribute to the recapitalisation of Greek banks. The fund will be based in Athens, not Luxembourg as the Germans had originally demanded.
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Re: O X I !!!

Postby cypriotnado » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:17 pm

Its the compulsory taking of state assets as a form of collaterol. Some of which ie the ports will be sold to capitalise banks etc. The Greek govt were if you recall opposed to the sale of state assets and voted against it in the referendum and previous govt refused to sell state assets ie the ports. But its true that the fund will now not be based in Luxembourg. The setting up of the fund was recommended by the Luxumbourg finance minister. It is not a German thing, although you are correct the Germans wanted it based in Luxembourg.
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Re: O X I !!!

Postby Robin Hood » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:22 pm

Greece does not stand a chance and never did from the day they gave up their sovereign currency to become ‘Europeans’!

The bankers have had over three hundred years to put this system together and they are not going to let a couple of upstarts from a tin pot little nation of 11 million people upset the apple cart. It is very evident what is it that these eminent commentators know that very few of us plebs seem capable of understanding? I would bet that Varoufakis also knows, that is why he had to go!

"When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain." Napoleon Bonaparte, Emperor of France.

The bank hath benefit of interest on all moneys which it creates out of nothing. "William Paterson, founder of the Bank of England in 1694, then a privately owned bank.

"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws." Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744-1812), founder of the House of Rothschild.

"The few who understand the system will either be so interested in its profits or be so dependent upon its favours that there will be no opposition from that class, while on the other hand, the great body of people, mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantage that capital(ism) derives from the system, will bear its burdens without complaint, and perhaps without even suspecting that the system is inimical to their interests." The Rothschild brothers of London writing to associates in New York, 1863.

"If the American people (any people?) ever allow private banks to control issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and the corporations will grow up around them, will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." Thomas Jefferson in the debate over The Re-charter of the Bank Bill (1809).

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and money system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." Henry Ford, founder of the Ford Motor Company.

"The modern banking system manufactures money out of nothing. The process is, perhaps, the most astounding piece of sleight of hand that was ever invented. Banks can in fact inflate, mint and un-mint the modern ledger-entry currency." Major L L B Angus.

"The government should create, issue and circulate all the currency and credits needed to satisfy the spending power of the government and the buying power of consumers. By adoption of these principles, the taxpayers will be saved immense sums of interest. Money will cease to be master and become the servant of humanity." Abraham Lincoln, US President 1861-5. He created government issue money during the American Civil War and was assassinated.

"The study of money, above all other fields in economics, is one in which complexity is used to disguise truth or to evade truth, not to reveal it. The process by which banks create money is so simple the mind is repelled. With something so important, a deeper mystery seems only decent." John Kenneth Galbraith (1908- ), former professor of economics at Harvard, writing in 'Money: Whence it came, where it went' (1975).
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Re: O X I !!!

Postby Nikitas » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:46 pm

The world is full of bad guys, and our government is supposed to look out for us and protect us agains them. It did not happen here.

In the immediate post Euro years, from 2001 onwards we were getting telephone sales calls offering us credit cards, no need to apply, the courier would drop it by and the courier, not a bank employee, would collect our signatures. The same for loans, the banks would call and badger people with loans for anything imaginable, house repaires, childrens education, holidays!!!! The well known "diakopodania". At age 55 I was offered a 30 year mortgage by the Post Office Bank, and when I told them of the actuarial life expectancy problem the employee said "we will give you a free life insureance with the loan", and this was with the management's full knowledge.

The finance for these came from cheap Euros given to Greek banks who in turn turned them into banking "products". Greece was turned from a cash economy to a credit economy overnight.

No one, and I mean NO ONE, raised any concerns, not even the consumers unions (semi state institutions anyway with appointed directors and we know how those appointments are filled and what pensions they bring at what age).

The result is a whole society heaving under the weight of "diakopodania", Jeep Cherokees piled ten deep in used car lots, and the private debt burden is in addition to the national debt.

The usual response is that it is all due to "curruption" in the government machine. How about looking at corruption in private businesses too. How would you term a situation where promotions in a company are given to persons who will provide kickbacks from their salaries to those that promote them?

This place needs an overhaul, the problem is who has the balls to do it.
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Re: O X I !!!

Postby miltiades » Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:04 pm

I have to express my delight that Greece, subject to the Greek Parliaments agreement, has been given a badly needed bail out even if the terms are harsh.

Greece now has to get its house in order, I hope that the vast majority of the Greek people will by now have understood that a disaster in financial terms has been averted even at a high price.

I wish Greece the very best of luck and I sincerely hope that bitter lesson have been learned, ie you can not live on borrowed money for eternity.
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Re: O X I !!!

Postby Oceanside50 » Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:49 pm

Nikitas wrote:The world is full of bad guys, and our government is supposed to look out for us and protect us agains them. It did not happen here.

In the immediate post Euro years, from 2001 onwards we were getting telephone sales calls offering us credit cards, no need to apply, the courier would drop it by and the courier, not a bank employee, would collect our signatures. The same for loans, the banks would call and badger people with loans for anything imaginable, house repaires, childrens education, holidays!!!! The well known "diakopodania". At age 55 I was offered a 30 year mortgage by the Post Office Bank, and when I told them of the actuarial life expectancy problem the employee said "we will give you a free life insureance with the loan", and this was with the management's full knowledge.

The finance for these came from cheap Euros given to Greek banks who in turn turned them into banking "products". Greece was turned from a cash economy to a credit economy overnight.

No one, and I mean NO ONE, raised any concerns, not even the consumers unions (semi state institutions anyway with appointed directors and we know how those appointments are filled and what pensions they bring at what age).

The result is a whole society heaving under the weight of "diakopodania", Jeep Cherokees piled ten deep in used car lots, and the private debt burden is in addition to the national debt.

The usual response is that it is all due to "curruption" in the government machine. How about looking at corruption in private businesses too. How would you term a situation where promotions in a company are given to persons who will provide kickbacks from their salaries to those that promote them?

This place needs an overhaul, the problem is who has the balls to do it.


There are inherent problems as this article states

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/7781624

The public sector is notorious for its corporatist practice of clientelism to gain votes and cronyism to gain favors -- though some say that Italy and France are as bad. Some evidence suggests the magnitude of this issue: Greece's government pensions relative to productivity are nearly twice Spain's.
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Re: O X I !!!

Postby Pyrpolizer » Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:55 pm

Robin Hood wrote:Greece does not stand a chance and never did from the day they gave up their sovereign currency to become ‘Europeans’!

The bankers have had over three hundred years to put this system together and they are not going to let a couple of upstarts from a tin pot little nation of 11 million people upset the apple cart. It is very evident what is it that these eminent commentators know that very few of us plebs seem capable of understanding? I would bet that Varoufakis also knows, that is why he had to go!

"When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain." Napoleon Bonaparte, Emperor of France..... etc


I was always wondering where you base your belief that Bankers make money from thin air.
So... it was from the 18th century events when the Rothchilds created the first Banks in the US ...
Yes, we know that's what was happening back then, and how fast the States themselves realized what was going on and got control.
Since then, things have changed a lot. I am sorry but your belief is today invalid.
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Re: O X I !!!

Postby Pyrpolizer » Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:06 pm

This is the 3rd and last agreement for Greece.
I really really doubt it she can make it.
she just bought 3 years time, that's all.
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Re: O X I !!!

Postby Paphitis » Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:00 pm

B25 wrote:
Paphitis wrote:Greece has been the big loser. Never seen a country so discredited since the surrender of Germany and Japan during WW2.

Greece needs to start believing in itself. Such a shame.

Really thought Tsipras was the man to make huge changes and destroy the Greek elites, nepotism and cronyism. Sad day for the little Greek Man. :roll:


Paph, you should not say Greece, but Tsipras. 61% of Greece voted to stick it to them, Tsipras bottled out. He is not going to be very popular back at home for sure.

Have you seen the thousands of messages on his FB page telling him to come home and not accept.


Yes mate I have seen many messages on FB calling on Tsipras to walk out of the Eurogroup.

He had a mandate to do this, and from many people I have spoken to, I get the sense that Greeks feel very embarrassed about caving in.

My assessment now is that Tsipras is finished politically. He campaigned against the ND yes men, held a hard line for a little while and then caved in to the blackmail 6 months later. Greece posted 0.5% growth in GDP when ND were booted from office, to now be about 3% in the red. Such a big waste.
Last edited by Paphitis on Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: O X I !!!

Postby Nikitas » Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:37 pm

On the contrary, now is the time for Tsipras to make the jump from politician to leader.

The challenge is simple, break the fake "left" political straitjacket this country has worn since 1974, both politically and culturally and create a new paradigm.

The second and even bigger challenge is to establish the right way to do business. It is neither left nor right wing, it is common sense to allow people to establish a business and start trading within 48 hours at the most. Sweep aside those artifical barriers that are used by individual civil servants to charge "grigorosimo", the charge for speeding the process that they already control.

Turkey, yes Turkey, found a way to sweep aside these bullshit obstacles.Case in point the frape coffee shop established by two chaps from Chios in Turkey. They noticed that you could not get frape in Turkey, so they inquired about opening a cafe. The process is simple, you apply, and you start working right away. Each department, ie fire, health, etc are obliged to visit your premises, WHILE IT IS OPERATING AND MAKING MONEY, and say what changes if any are needed to allow you to continue operating.

Here it takes SIX MONTHS for the fire department to grant a renewal of fire certificates and while you wait, and work because you cannot afford to close, other departments come by and fine you for not having a fire certificate. Get the picture?

The mighty USA has small business chambers in every city because they know that small businesses are the ones that grow and become multinationals.

The place needs an overhaul. Tsipras can do it. If he chooses to do it, then he will go down in history as a reformer.
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