Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

Greeks should feel very proud of themselves. After 5 years of continued bombardment, Greece is preserving its dignity. I never thought or believed it would happen since I always thought Greece will agree to the unacceptable terms from the Eurozone, IMF, and ECB.

Tsipras stuck to his guns and told them to shove it.

So now Greece has a vote on Sunday.

The decision the Greek people face is to remain in the Eurozone and condemn the Greek people to slavery and bondage for 2 or maybe 3 generations, or nationalize the Banks and revert back to its own currency resulting in hyper-inflation and despair for 2 to 5 years.

I support a Greek Default. I also support a BIG OXI from the Greek people.

Get the fuck out and tell the Eurozone to GO FUCK THEMSELVES.

After the humiliation, the day will come where this day will be remembered when Greece took Europe on and won.

And Greece will outdo Cyprus in no time, outside of the Eurozone.

The second OXI is coming!

[Robin Hood]

My comment from a previous thread:

A large number of the comments on here identify ‘The Banks’ (Banksters) as the problem, as it was they that made the loans knowing that the chances of having the debt repaid got less likely as the Greek debt mounted.

Banks create debt ........ which is what they did to Greece, they don’t actually loan anything ..... they create ‘money’ as a computer entry and as negative figure in a credit account and call it a loan. When the ‘loan’ is repaid it is written off the books .... i.e. the ECB/IMF write off the debt. If the capital sum is not repaid ......... the banks lose NOTHING!!!! This so called ‘money’ did not exist until the banks created it and will cease to exist when the debt is repaid or written off. The ‘loan’ is simply the ECB/IMF allowing Greece to spend money it hasn’t got ....... i.e. the ECB/IMF allow them to write bouncing cheques but they don’t bounce them.

Grasp that basic principal of money creation and you can see just what a gigantic fraud the banking system is and why Greece will recover if they revert to a Sovereign currency, an independent Central Bank and the removal of commercial banks ability to create money out of thin air.

BTW: The Bank of England (and many other sources including the FED) have confirmed this is how banks make ‘loans’ and create ‘money’!

[CBBB]

My comment from a previous thread:

A large number of the comments on here identify ‘The Banks’ (Banksters) as the problem, as it was they that made the loans knowing that the chances of having the debt repaid got less likely as the Greek debt mounted.

Banks create debt ........ which is what they did to Greece, they don’t actually loan anything ..... they create ‘money’ as a computer entry and as negative figure in a credit account and call it a loan. When the ‘loan’ is repaid it is written off the books .... i.e. the ECB/IMF write off the debt. If the capital sum is not repaid ......... the banks lose NOTHING!!!! This so called ‘money’ did not exist until the banks created it and will cease to exist when the debt is repaid or written off. The ‘loan’ is simply the ECB/IMF allowing Greece to spend money it hasn’t got ....... i.e. the ECB/IMF allow them to write bouncing cheques but they don’t bounce them.

Grasp that basic principal of money creation and you can see just what a gigantic fraud the banking system is and why Greece will recover if they revert to a Sovereign currency, an independent Central Bank and the removal of commercial banks ability to create money out of thin air.

BTW: The Bank of England (and many other sources including the FED) have confirmed this is how banks make ‘loans’ and create ‘money’!

I seem to have seen this somewhere else, ProVox.

[Tim Drayton]

If I were a betting man, my money would go on the Greek people voting in favour of the deal on the table (even if by a narrow margin). It is by no means certain, of course.

[Sotos]

My comment from a previous thread:

A large number of the comments on here identify ‘The Banks’ (Banksters) as the problem, as it was they that made the loans knowing that the chances of having the debt repaid got less likely as the Greek debt mounted.

Banks create debt ........ which is what they did to Greece, they don’t actually loan anything ..... they create ‘money’ as a computer entry and as negative figure in a credit account and call it a loan. When the ‘loan’ is repaid it is written off the books .... i.e. the ECB/IMF write off the debt. If the capital sum is not repaid ......... the banks lose NOTHING!!!! This so called ‘money’ did not exist until the banks created it and will cease to exist when the debt is repaid or written off. The ‘loan’ is simply the ECB/IMF allowing Greece to spend money it hasn’t got ....... i.e. the ECB/IMF allow them to write bouncing cheques but they don’t bounce them.

Grasp that basic principal of money creation and you can see just what a gigantic fraud the banking system is and why Greece will recover if they revert to a Sovereign currency, an independent Central Bank and the removal of commercial banks ability to create money out of thin air.

BTW: The Bank of England (and many other sources including the FED) have confirmed this is how banks make ‘loans’ and create ‘money’!

Commercial banks can not create money. In EU this can be done only by ECB. "Printing" money can increase inflation and devaluate the currency. When a country can print its own money then it can choose the optimal balance between how much money they created vs inflation and the valuation of their currency. The problem with EU is that the ideal balance between those factors is different for each country.

[Lordo]

they will have a new currency worth 25% of euro. the people will suffer the pain for a very long time.

[kurupetos]

they will have a new currency worth 25% of euro. the people will suffer the pain for a very long time.

Only until GD becomes government. Therefore not that long...

[Lordo]

they will have a new currency worth 25% of euro. the people will suffer the pain for a very long time.

Only until GD becomes government. Therefore not that long...

you really are a little on the simple side gulluimu. how will gd help, if anything it will prolong the agony. it will be like having your teeth pulled out for 8 hours a day

[Robin Hood]

CBBB:

I seem to have seen this (argument) somewhere else, ProVox.

Yes CBBB you have but as you can see the majority of people do not understand the concept that commercial banks produce 97-98% of ‘money’ in circulation........... out of thin air! It is something of interest to me and you never know one day the message will get through? It is a concept difficult to accept but once the penny drops it is very apparent that this is the only way new money is created and a much clearer picture of events in Greece become apparent. IMO: Tsipras and Varoufakis have a good grasp of the concept.

The German finance Minister summed it up when he told Tsipras that “The 'common people' would not understand the problem and therefore their referendum was irrelevant”. He is right ..... they don’t understand.

SOROS:

Commercial banks cannot create money. In EU this can be done only by ECB. "Printing" money can increase inflation and devaluate the currency. When a country can print its own money then it can choose the optimal balance between how much money they created vs inflation and the valuation of their currency. The problem with EU is that the ideal balance between those factors is different for each country.

I am sorry SOROS but you are wrong! What you are referring to is ‘note-and-coin’ which indeed is printed only by the European Central Bank as is the case for any currency. But this represents about ~3% of the money in circulation, the other ~97% is created by commercial banks as debt. This printed money the ECB shipped to Cyprus and now to Greece because without it the banks do not have enough money to service their debts ...... i.e. the money they borrow from you when you pay money into the bank. If the bank goes down, you are an unsecured creditor, simply because the banks have nothing in the way of collateral to back the money they create. If you or I tried it we would end up serving time!

The money created by the commercial banks is always created as a debt whereas a sovereign currency produced by a government via an independent Central Bank as note and coin, or electronically, is spent into circulation and is a) Free of debt; b) Free of interest; c) continually circulates. Mind you this is not something the Bankers like very much as they prefer the current debt based (debt slavery) economies out of which they make their billions.

The problem with EU is that the ideal balance between those factors is different for each country.

Which is why the Eurozone can never work unless the richer countries are prepared to subsidise the poorer countries .... which they obviously are not!

It is an involved subject and far too long to discus on here.

[Tim Drayton]

“… two separate polls conducted by Greek newspapers suggest that nearly 60 per cent of the public would vote Yes.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ggest.html