Cyprus-Forum.com

[Lordo]

what is your assessment regarding this document and the way the two leaders are equal and anastasides is not referred to as the president.

you really need some help regarding dengtash and 18%. not on your life old man. dengtash and the rest of ubp as well as baby dengtash was against the plan which is why he was not allowed to go to the negotiations. what was it he said after the vote. the gcs saved you. are you really that gone.

the way you have tcs not want to separate is you stop being racists and give them a fair crack at the whip as it were. i am using this analogy as sexual context is the only thing you bloody understand.

[Oceanside50]

what is your assessment regarding this document and the way the two leaders are equal and anastasides is not referred to as the president.
kikapu wrote:
you really need some help regarding dengtash and 18%. not on your life old man. dengtash and the rest of ubp as well as baby dengtash was against the plan which is why he was not allowed to go to the negotiations. what was it he said after the vote. the gcs saved you. are you really that gone.

the way you have tcs not want to separate is you stop being racists and give them a fair crack at the whip as it were. i am using this analogy as sexual context is the only thing you bloody understand.

the only racist on this board is koLordo, who ever advocates taking away rights from people because of their ethnic identity is a bigoted jackass.

With BBF, there will be "borders" which will outline the state lines, but not necessarily have controls at state lines. In the US main land, one can drive from state to state without going through any controls, although, some states do have controls for commercial vehicles but not for private. California has agricultural inspection at ALL of its Stateline crossings with neighbouring states. This is to prevent from people bringing in fruit from neighbouring states so to control insects that could damage the agricultural industry.

If population control in each states is agreed on, then all they need to do is to have the people living in those states to register themselves with the local council, as we do here in Switzerland, even though we do not have population control what so ever. This way we have clear picture as to who lives where.

If BBF is set up as True Federation as in the US, then I do not see BBF as a partition, due to checks & balances that will come with it from the Federal Government. That's why Annan Plan was and is loved by ALL the partitionist, including Denktash, despite his so called being against the AP. Yeah right. In pig’s ear, I say.

The way to discourage the north from ever thinking of any partition in the future is to reduce the north’s territory by 50% from what it is now. This will serve two purposes. One is to keep the north state in the union and the second is to give the TCs a greater political control in the north, since most of the GC refugee’s properties will then be in the southern state. This will build a lot of trust between all Cypriots if these were to happen. If it doesn't happen, then I can't see the GCs agreeing to any kind of a settlement with the TCs, especially if the Turkey also remains a guarantee power. It will only be a matter of time before "false flag" operations start again.

Unfortunately I don't see a Federation style of government working for Cyprus. We have all been led to believe that a US style federation is the answer. In Cyprus things are different, first there is the communal separation, where the tc minority have wanted separation since the 1950's and whose attitude hasn't changed much ever since. As well as you know kikapu, there are many instances where states in the usa have neglected to follow federal guidelines and federal supreme court decisions such as civil rights and recently the debates on illegal immigration and marijuana use. These states usually have an internal electorate that elects representatives to state legislatures, which in turn enact laws that reflect a particular states' attitudes. In the 1960's states like Alabama and Mississippi wanted to keep segregation while the rest of the country was integrating blacks and whites. Through numerous federal court orders and a federal supreme court decision they still refused. I'm sure many recall the pictures of black kids being escorted into white schools in the south, by national guardsmen. Recently some western states have allowed the use of marijuana, while the federal supreme court has ruled that pot use is illegal. States have more rights then one would think. in a Federated Cyprus, the Tc state would have the power to pass laws, which could be racist and bigoted, not much different then the laws they have today in the occupied areas. A unified state with at most tc cantons is the best solution.

[Lordo]

interesting and yet you do not see the roc racism in cyprus.

what about the un and how it has shifted. is that not a waning to you.

i never thought i would hear a gc say this openly. the times are changing indeed.

http://cyprus-mail.com/2015/06/22/anastasiades-motherlands-remark-whips-up-a-storm/

Comment about this article.

Andrikos B • an hour ago
Send DIKO and the so-called citizens alliance to Greece then. Nick's comment isn't unfortunate, the fact that all these stupid pseudo-patriotic parties exist is unfortunate. And I won't leave DISY out of this either, they have always been the party who's whole ideology has always appealed to the pro-enosis, pro-Greek section of the population. It's only now they've taken centre stage that they have changed their tune. Most normal, Cypriot 'men on the street' will tell you that Greece played a key role in the division of the island and that the motherland is guilty of prodosia (betrayal), a word that carries alot of weight in Cyprus.

However, I'm becoming less enthusiastic for a solution. The weeks have gone by and the worrying report came out from the Kibris newspaper that only 10-20,000 refugees would be allowed to return. The sooner they start making big changes which indicate a solution, like opening Varosi or ,for example, allowing Turkish Cypriots to return to their properties or opening up Tymvou airport or whatever the equivalent to Varosha would be, the more confidant everyone will feel.


almostbroke • 3 hours ago
Papadopolous had no problem with every despot with a shed load of money 'invading ' Cyprus , and landing at the door of his and his fathers lawyer office seeking help to make the ill gotten gains vanish within the 'system ' . Papadopolus is an arrogant little man whose only ambition is apart from cleaning out the coffers of the state , is to become president like his father before him, his father was no addition to Cyprus and neither is he !

[Oceanside50]

whats shifted?... i see un resolutions condemning the invasion and asking for the removal of turk troops.. i see echr rulings dictating the return of the refugees to their villages. i see an illegitimate illegal entity in the occupied areas and so does the rest of the world including the un...what do you see? a word missing from a letter that gives you hope for recognition..

[Lordo]

whats shifted?... i see un resolutions condemning the invasion and asking for the removal of turk troops.. i see echr rulings dictating the return of the refugees to their villages. i see an illegitimate illegal entity in the occupied areas and so does the rest of the world including the un...what do you see? a word missing from a letter that gives you hope for recognition..

a word you say ai

el presidente

[Kikapu]

This is for our friend, Lordo.

Agreement is coming, you say?

What does Turkey say?

Anastasiades rules out Cyprus solution if Turkey doesn’t withdraw troops

Greek Cyprus President Nicos Anastasiades speaks to press at a final news conference on the second day of his visit in Moscow on Feb. 26. (Photo: AP)
June 22, 2015, Monday/ 16:35:04/ TODAY'S ZAMAN / ANKARA

Greek Cypriot leader Nicos Anastasiades has firmly rejected any prospect of a solution in Cyprus if Turkey refuses to withdraw its troops from the northern part of the island, revealing the stakes and challenges lying ahead of fragile negotiations aimed at ending the decades-old division of Cyprus.

UN-mediated peace talks to reunify the ethnically divided island were revived after Mustafa Akıncı swept into power in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (KKTC) in late April. Since then, the leaders of Cyprus' opposing communities have met three times to discuss the disputed points in negotiations.

Speaking to the CNN Türk TV channel on Sunday, Anastasiades seemed to appear optimistic about the course of the peace negotiations that were previously doomed by deadlock despite 41 years of diplomatic efforts.
He, however, showed no sign of agreeing to the red lines drawn by Ankara for a Cyprus solution.

First and foremost is the issue of the withdrawal of Turkish troops from the island. Any agreement for the reunification of the island is locked in a dispute related to their status. Turkey currently has more than 30,000 forces in the north and intends to keep them there until a final settlement is reached, while the Greek Cypriots seeking the removal of Turkey's forces from the island as a precondition.

As part of the Annan Plan in 2004 that was put to a referendum on both halves of the island, with the majority of Turks voting “yes” while Greek Cypriots refused the plan ahead of EU accession that same year, Turkey agreed to withdraw its forces. That compromise nevertheless yielded nothing, as the Greek Cypriots rejected the Annan Plan that had brought both sides closer to peace.

Anastasiades told CNN Türk that if there is no deal on the pullout of Turkish troops, then there is no solution to the Cyprus dispute, emphasizing that the military presence of a foreign country in an EU member state's territory is unacceptable.

Another major point of contention is disagreement over the issue of the right to guarantee. As a guarantor power in Cyprus, Turkey claims the right to deploy military servicemen. Turkey and Turkish Cyprus want to preserve the right to guarantee, while the Greek side is cold to any such framework, which it sees as a violation of its sovereignty.

If the island is unified, Anastasiades says the UN and the EU should be the international platforms with the right to guarantee in order to oversee the proper functioning and security of the Cyprus state.
The Greek Cypriot leader also called on Ankara to open Turkey's ports and harbors to Greek Cypriot ships. Despite strong optimism among the international community over peace negotiations, Anastasiades refused to give a deadline or timeframe for a solution.

Cyprus was split in 1974 when Turkey intervened after a Greek military junta toppled the civilian government with purpose of uniting the island with Greece. Turkish Cypriots declared an independent state on the island's northern third, but it is recognized only by Turkey. Although Cyprus is a European Union member, only the internationally recognized south enjoys full benefits.

http://www.todayszaman.com/diplomacy_an ... 90916.html

[Kikapu]

what is your assessment regarding this document and the way the two leaders are equal and anastasides is not referred to as the president.
kikapu wrote:
you really need some help regarding dengtash and 18%. not on your life old man. dengtash and the rest of ubp as well as baby dengtash was against the plan which is why he was not allowed to go to the negotiations. what was it he said after the vote. the gcs saved you. are you really that gone.

the way you have tcs not want to separate is you stop being racists and give them a fair crack at the whip as it were. i am using this analogy as sexual context is the only thing you bloody understand.

the only racist on this board is koLordo, who ever advocates taking away rights from people because of their ethnic identity is a bigoted jackass.

With BBF, there will be "borders" which will outline the state lines, but not necessarily have controls at state lines. In the US main land, one can drive from state to state without going through any controls, although, some states do have controls for commercial vehicles but not for private. California has agricultural inspection at ALL of its Stateline crossings with neighbouring states. This is to prevent from people bringing in fruit from neighbouring states so to control insects that could damage the agricultural industry.

If population control in each states is agreed on, then all they need to do is to have the people living in those states to register themselves with the local council, as we do here in Switzerland, even though we do not have population control what so ever. This way we have clear picture as to who lives where.

If BBF is set up as True Federation as in the US, then I do not see BBF as a partition, due to checks & balances that will come with it from the Federal Government. That's why Annan Plan was and is loved by ALL the partitionist, including Denktash, despite his so called being against the AP. Yeah right. In pig’s ear, I say.

The way to discourage the north from ever thinking of any partition in the future is to reduce the north’s territory by 50% from what it is now. This will serve two purposes. One is to keep the north state in the union and the second is to give the TCs a greater political control in the north, since most of the GC refugee’s properties will then be in the southern state. This will build a lot of trust between all Cypriots if these were to happen. If it doesn't happen, then I can't see the GCs agreeing to any kind of a settlement with the TCs, especially if the Turkey also remains a guarantee power. It will only be a matter of time before "false flag" operations start again.

Unfortunately I don't see a Federation style of government working for Cyprus. We have all been led to believe that a US style federation is the answer. In Cyprus things are different, first there is the communal separation, where the tc minority have wanted separation since the 1950's and whose attitude hasn't changed much ever since. As well as you know kikapu, there are many instances where states in the usa have neglected to follow federal guidelines and federal supreme court decisions such as civil rights and recently the debates on illegal immigration and marijuana use. These states usually have an internal electorate that elects representatives to state legislatures, which in turn enact laws that reflect a particular states' attitudes. In the 1960's states like Alabama and Mississippi wanted to keep segregation while the rest of the country was integrating blacks and whites. Through numerous federal court orders and a federal supreme court decision they still refused. I'm sure many recall the pictures of black kids being escorted into white schools in the south, by national guardsmen. Recently some western states have allowed the use of marijuana, while the federal supreme court has ruled that pot use is illegal. States have more rights then one would think. in a Federated Cyprus, the Tc state would have the power to pass laws, which could be racist and bigoted, not much different then the laws they have today in the occupied areas. A unified state with at most tc cantons is the best solution.

For a USA style of Federation to happen in Cyprus, the island needs to adopt True Democracy. Without True Democracy, nothing will work in Cyprus. 1959 agreements have proven, that without True Democracy communities will want to do what ever they want. The north and south states cannot be GC state and TC state. No, they will need to be north and south states and ALL citizens living in those states will need to have ALL their Democratic rights respected, otherwise communal separation will occur on large scale as you have stated, which will be bad for Cyprus. Freedom of moment has to be a must, even if there is a short-term derogation on that in the beginning, but ultimately, the whole island needs to be free in every way.

USA has come a long way from its policy of the 50's, 60's and even the 70's. It is true, that individual states do have a lot of say what goes in their state, which is an argument I have made many times before, however, individual states cannot override Federal constitution. The states might try passing laws that might not be agreeable with the Federal Laws, and then it is up to the courts to sort it out. If the Federal government is in the right and the state is in the wrong and the state does dot back down, then the Federal government can and will hold back funds on any Federal projects in that state on such things as highways, bridges, ports and so on, not to mention political and economic pressure from other states also. It is not easy to get around the Federal laws.

[Lordo]

This is for our friend, Lordo.

Agreement is coming, you say?

What does Turkey say?

Anastasiades rules out Cyprus solution if Turkey doesn’t withdraw troops

Greek Cyprus President Nicos Anastasiades speaks to press at a final news conference on the second day of his visit in Moscow on Feb. 26. (Photo: AP)
June 22, 2015, Monday/ 16:35:04/ TODAY'S ZAMAN / ANKARA

Greek Cypriot leader Nicos Anastasiades has firmly rejected any prospect of a solution in Cyprus if Turkey refuses to withdraw its troops from the northern part of the island, revealing the stakes and challenges lying ahead of fragile negotiations aimed at ending the decades-old division of Cyprus.

UN-mediated peace talks to reunify the ethnically divided island were revived after Mustafa Akıncı swept into power in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (KKTC) in late April. Since then, the leaders of Cyprus' opposing communities have met three times to discuss the disputed points in negotiations.

Speaking to the CNN Türk TV channel on Sunday, Anastasiades seemed to appear optimistic about the course of the peace negotiations that were previously doomed by deadlock despite 41 years of diplomatic efforts.
He, however, showed no sign of agreeing to the red lines drawn by Ankara for a Cyprus solution.

First and foremost is the issue of the withdrawal of Turkish troops from the island. Any agreement for the reunification of the island is locked in a dispute related to their status. Turkey currently has more than 30,000 forces in the north and intends to keep them there until a final settlement is reached, while the Greek Cypriots seeking the removal of Turkey's forces from the island as a precondition.

As part of the Annan Plan in 2004 that was put to a referendum on both halves of the island, with the majority of Turks voting “yes” while Greek Cypriots refused the plan ahead of EU accession that same year, Turkey agreed to withdraw its forces. That compromise nevertheless yielded nothing, as the Greek Cypriots rejected the Annan Plan that had brought both sides closer to peace.

Anastasiades told CNN Türk that if there is no deal on the pullout of Turkish troops, then there is no solution to the Cyprus dispute, emphasizing that the military presence of a foreign country in an EU member state's territory is unacceptable.

Another major point of contention is disagreement over the issue of the right to guarantee. As a guarantor power in Cyprus, Turkey claims the right to deploy military servicemen. Turkey and Turkish Cyprus want to preserve the right to guarantee, while the Greek side is cold to any such framework, which it sees as a violation of its sovereignty.

If the island is unified, Anastasiades says the UN and the EU should be the international platforms with the right to guarantee in order to oversee the proper functioning and security of the Cyprus state.
The Greek Cypriot leader also called on Ankara to open Turkey's ports and harbors to Greek Cypriot ships. Despite strong optimism among the international community over peace negotiations, Anastasiades refused to give a deadline or timeframe for a solution.

Cyprus was split in 1974 when Turkey intervened after a Greek military junta toppled the civilian government with purpose of uniting the island with Greece. Turkish Cypriots declared an independent state on the island's northern third, but it is recognized only by Turkey. Although Cyprus is a European Union member, only the internationally recognized south enjoys full benefits.

http://www.todayszaman.com/diplomacy_an ... 90916.html

here is the question again.
what is your assessment regarding this document and the way the two leaders are equal and anastasides is not referred to as the president.

and while we are on questions since when did you move from 5% for the TCs state 18%, thats some movement. perhaps in a few years you will see what 27% is more reasonable.

[Oceanside50]

This is for our friend, Lordo.

Agreement is coming, you say?

What does Turkey say?

Anastasiades rules out Cyprus solution if Turkey doesn’t withdraw troops

Greek Cyprus President Nicos Anastasiades speaks to press at a final news conference on the second day of his visit in Moscow on Feb. 26. (Photo: AP)
June 22, 2015, Monday/ 16:35:04/ TODAY'S ZAMAN / ANKARA

Greek Cypriot leader Nicos Anastasiades has firmly rejected any prospect of a solution in Cyprus if Turkey refuses to withdraw its troops from the northern part of the island, revealing the stakes and challenges lying ahead of fragile negotiations aimed at ending the decades-old division of Cyprus.

UN-mediated peace talks to reunify the ethnically divided island were revived after Mustafa Akıncı swept into power in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (KKTC) in late April. Since then, the leaders of Cyprus' opposing communities have met three times to discuss the disputed points in negotiations.

Speaking to the CNN Türk TV channel on Sunday, Anastasiades seemed to appear optimistic about the course of the peace negotiations that were previously doomed by deadlock despite 41 years of diplomatic efforts.
He, however, showed no sign of agreeing to the red lines drawn by Ankara for a Cyprus solution.

First and foremost is the issue of the withdrawal of Turkish troops from the island. Any agreement for the reunification of the island is locked in a dispute related to their status. Turkey currently has more than 30,000 forces in the north and intends to keep them there until a final settlement is reached, while the Greek Cypriots seeking the removal of Turkey's forces from the island as a precondition.

As part of the Annan Plan in 2004 that was put to a referendum on both halves of the island, with the majority of Turks voting “yes” while Greek Cypriots refused the plan ahead of EU accession that same year, Turkey agreed to withdraw its forces. That compromise nevertheless yielded nothing, as the Greek Cypriots rejected the Annan Plan that had brought both sides closer to peace.

Anastasiades told CNN Türk that if there is no deal on the pullout of Turkish troops, then there is no solution to the Cyprus dispute, emphasizing that the military presence of a foreign country in an EU member state's territory is unacceptable.

Another major point of contention is disagreement over the issue of the right to guarantee. As a guarantor power in Cyprus, Turkey claims the right to deploy military servicemen. Turkey and Turkish Cyprus want to preserve the right to guarantee, while the Greek side is cold to any such framework, which it sees as a violation of its sovereignty.

If the island is unified, Anastasiades says the UN and the EU should be the international platforms with the right to guarantee in order to oversee the proper functioning and security of the Cyprus state.
The Greek Cypriot leader also called on Ankara to open Turkey's ports and harbors to Greek Cypriot ships. Despite strong optimism among the international community over peace negotiations, Anastasiades refused to give a deadline or timeframe for a solution.

Cyprus was split in 1974 when Turkey intervened after a Greek military junta toppled the civilian government with purpose of uniting the island with Greece. Turkish Cypriots declared an independent state on the island's northern third, but it is recognized only by Turkey. Although Cyprus is a European Union member, only the internationally recognized south enjoys full benefits.

http://www.todayszaman.com/diplomacy_an ... 90916.html

here is the question again.
what is your assessment regarding this document and the way the two leaders are equal and anastasides is not referred to as the president.

and while we are on questions since when did you move from 5% for the TCs state 18%, thats some movement. perhaps in a few years you will see what 27% is more reasonable.

[Nikitas]

As we get closer to the "hard bits" of the negotiation, and as the EU is making clear that it is not keen on major diversions from the EU aquis, the BBF concept is getting harder to maintain. One EU official said yesterday it is hard to justify allowing all EU citizens the right of establishment in the north yet exclude GCs.

Then comes the rotating presidency. The concept that it will be the TC state head just taking over has been challenged and what is proposed is the Cristofias-Talat idea of a weighted voting system where all citizens vote for both presidents.

I want to see Turkey's reaction to the notion that GCs will vote to choose the TC president.

It is also becoming clear to the TCs that if they want to retain their state "racially pure" they must agree to a territorial settlement that will keep GCs out, ie return territory that wil contain the highest GC pre 1974 population centers.