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[cypezokyli]

ok piratis.
lets say we just view everything from a different point of view, and not try to turn a discussion on a beautiful book on a who-is-the-more-cruel.

you just want to view it on: we and they. what we get what you get. how many you killed how many did we. because we have more deaths we suffered more. because they killed more they are the bad guys.

for me there is no: us and they. its just people who suffered bc of nationalism. its just mothers who lost their kids, and wifes losing their husbands. gc or tc doesnt really matter, and even more the numbers wont change the individual pain. the pain is there and its not going to heal by attitudes of the kind: ok we did... but you did more...
i am sorry, but thats not the way to move ahead

[Piratis]

cypezokyli, I didn't see you reacting in this way when some TCs claim that we are the 'bad guys' and that for this reason our human and democratic rights should be violated. Why? Why you didn't tell to them: "There is no 'us' and 'them', we are all equal Cypriots"?

What I say is what I am forced to say, not because I want to but because some people choose to act in a hostile way and violate the human rights of 100s of thousands of people as we speak. When some people deny to me my right to live anywhere in my country, how can I view those people as 'us'?

Personally I would be more than glad if there was no "us" and "them". But this option is not given to me (and you) because TCs want this separation to exist.

Therefore don't blame me for the "us and them", blame those that insist on this separation.

[cypezokyli]

go back in this thread and tell me who "forced" you piratis.

it was about a book that didnt refer to us and them. go back and see who made that differantiation first. for whom the differantiation was important to be made.

[Piratis]

cypezokyli, this issue is not created in this thread. And if somebody brought it in this thread this was not me. I simply made an inquiry regarding the book. You could simply say that you didn't have the book and that would be the end of it.

However when you asked why it is important for the facts to be said correctly, then I had to answer. For me a book that is supposed to describe real facts should be first and above all accurate with the facts if is to be taken as a serious historical source.

[BirKibrisli]

Cypezokyli,

Your discussion with Piratis illustrates what I always say,it is our thoughts that divide us,not our ethnic origins.You and I think alike on this and many other issues.Piratis has diferent thoughts.
Piratis,I am afraid cypezokyli is right.Nobody forced you to jump in and question the number of deaths or the motives of this book.

When we say one death is too many,we mean just that.There should be no deaths.Full stop.You can not weigh or measure pain and suffering,Piratis.You cannot justify the killing of 100 people because they killed 1000 of us...Killing 100 people for their ethnic origin is genocide.It is a terrible crime against humanity.Killing 1000 people is "a bigger genocide".But they are both genocides.And it is the genocide which we should condemn,not the numbers involved.

[zan]

Oh boy!!!!!

[Piratis]

Birkibrisli, I condemn all kind of crimes no matter were they come from. I also expect from books to present the true facts about the events they describe. I never questioned the motives of the book since I have not read it. I just asked a simple question that would help me understand if this is a book were the whole truth is presented or not.

There are books that describe the suffering of one side only. Then there are books that describe the full suffering of one side, and only part of the suffering of the other in an effort to sound objective. Then there are a few books that at least try to present the whole truth about the events they describe. I simply wanted to know if this book belongs in the second or 3rd category. Whats so bad with that?

[Simon]

Piratis is right. He was merely asking whether the book reflected facts on exactly who suffered and when.

Maybe the TCs are nervous about the truth coming out, so they have to react in this way.

[cypezokyli]

just got the book.
just for those for whom these things are important, no number in the introductions. i didnt expect any.

sth interesting. she always wanted to write in a gcs newspaper. she did for a while in vima, the newspaper of vasileiou. the reaction of the progressive people in the north was: should we start calling you maroulla? we should say kalimera to you and not gunaydin anymore. so you started wrting for a gc newspaper?
noone cared for what i wrote, everybody cared that i wrote in the south.

after vima was closed down she attempted cooperation with haravgi - akels newspapers , and phileleftheros - the goverments newspaper and she received a negative answer. is anyone surprised..? just wondering, bc i am not. she got a positive answer from alithia, one of the dysi newspapers...

progressive people in the north and the south...

[Sotos]

When you read the whole book you should give us the summary How many pages is this book anyways?