Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

No you do not spend 10%. Don't pull those numbers out of your arse. Cyprus is spending closer to 4%.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS. ... /countries

And when Compulsory Service is abolished, that will decrease further to more like 2%.

Not only this, the benefits of just applying good career employment on its own far outweighs spending 0%.

Not to mention the fact that leaving the island Defenceless is the STUPIDESS thing in the world, just from a terrorism or border security point of you.

What are you going to do if 200,000 boat people come from Africa? Ask the Brits for help?

You are too sloppy in your searches.
And on top of it trusting the World bank to get such data when most of it is secret??
First of all those percentages are not based on GDP but on Government expenditure.
It's obvious that at best they only include salaries and pensions.
To get an idea how much we spend on armaments you have to do it indirectly. Start from the fact that all interests gained from deposits are taxed 30% and that tax goes directly to armaments.
In the good old times BOC was announcing profits almost near 1 billion.
Question:Was BOC making more profits than what the Gvnt was sucking from people's collected interests?
Do your maths step by step and you will find out in the good old times we were even spending more than 10% of our GDP.

Most of it is secret huh?

How is that even possible when you're owned by the Troika?

Here is another source: http://www.eda.europa.eu/info-hub/defen ... /year/2012

Total Expenditure €323 million
GDP 1.81% (2012)

http://www.eda.europa.eu/info-hub/defen ... /year/2012

For your information, maybe some of your purchases are secret but the expenditure certainly is not. It has to be approved by Parliament first of all, and you can't just fudge the books unless you want to be fucked even more by the Eurozone.

I don't even know why you would keep your purchases secret either. It's not as if you can hide anything.

I remember when the Hind Helicopters were suppose to be secret until they had to take off from Paphos Airport.

Furthermore, I doubt Cyprus would ever be allowed to spend even 5%. You won't be allowed because the lenders own your arses, but expenditure of 2 to 3% is easily justifiable and quite standard.

Paphiti, whatever Cyprus spends, it's not enough. When you have neighbours like Turkey and assholes like Pyro to deal with we always need more.

Nikita, other countries may be allowed self defence as a statehood, but this does not apply to Cyprus, our masters US/UK have ensured this. Just look at the S300 saga. We should just have told them all the FO and bring them in. In fact we should upgrade to the S500 system. I would be more than happy to pay more tax as long as it went to these armaments.

Unfortunately B25,

past leaders like Makarios really marginalised Cyprus many decades ago. That is the truth.

We have ended up on the outer; outside of NATO and that screwed us big time.

We have a kind of thinking which is quite unusual to say the least, and the sad thing is there are people like Pyro who are unrealistic. Demilitarization is not possible.

If the right decisions were made early on, the CNG would be armed to the teeth with American Arms. You know how much hardware they just gave away to countries like Greece and Turkey. After the Vietnam War, they were ditching fighters into the ocean because they couldn't give them away. The ocean is littered with such graveyards.

[Lordo]

thats nonsense and you know it. if demilitarisation was not possible why did the swiss hold a referendum to delmilitarise where a third of the people voted to do so. what was the referendum for. or was it a bit like the australian one to remove some ghost racism against the natives.

you do make it up as you go along. you do not need a military to have a state. a police force yes but no a militiary unless you intend to invade or you are going to be invaded. if roc behaved in the 70s terggy would not have landed troops to protect the tcs.

now talk about something that makes sense.

[Nikitas]

Fascinating assumption that Cyprus in the future will never face any external threat therefore it needs no army. And no, external does not mean from Turkey or Greece.

Presumably there will be a coastguard, a sea rescue service, both of which need air craft to carry out their duties, an armed police force, some kind of border protection service run by the federal government, an anti terrorist unit. Now add all these together and they begin to look like what in normal countries they call armed forces.

Circumstances will bring about whatever is needed, whether we like it or not.

[Pyrpolizer]

No you do not spend 10%. Don't pull those numbers out of your arse. Cyprus is spending closer to 4%.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS. ... /countries

And when Compulsory Service is abolished, that will decrease further to more like 2%.

Not only this, the benefits of just applying good career employment on its own far outweighs spending 0%.

Not to mention the fact that leaving the island Defenceless is the STUPIDESS thing in the world, just from a terrorism or border security point of you.

What are you going to do if 200,000 boat people come from Africa? Ask the Brits for help?

You are too sloppy in your searches.
And on top of it trusting the World bank to get such data when most of it is secret??
First of all those percentages are not based on GDP but on Government expenditure.
It's obvious that at best they only include salaries and pensions.
To get an idea how much we spend on armaments you have to do it indirectly. Start from the fact that all interests gained from deposits are taxed 30% and that tax goes directly to armaments.
In the good old times BOC was announcing profits almost near 1 billion.
Question:Was BOC making more profits than what the Gvnt was sucking from people's collected interests?
Do your maths step by step and you will find out in the good old times we were even spending more than 10% of our GDP.

Most of it is secret huh?

How is that even possible when you're owned by the Troika?

Here is another source: http://www.eda.europa.eu/info-hub/defen ... /year/2012

Total Expenditure €323 million
GDP 1.81% (2012)

http://www.eda.europa.eu/info-hub/defen ... /year/2012

For your information, maybe some of your purchases are secret but the expenditure certainly is not. It has to be approved by Parliament first of all, and you can't just fudge the books unless you want to be fucked even more by the Eurozone.

I don't even know why you would keep your purchases secret either. It's not as if you can hide anything.

I remember when the Hind Helicopters were suppose to be secret until they had to take off from Paphos Airport.

Furthermore, I doubt Cyprus would ever be allowed to spend even 5%. You won't be allowed because the lenders own your arses, but expenditure of 2 to 3% is easily justifiable and quite standard.

I am not talking for the post troika period.
I am certain that they now just go with running and maintenance expenses. They don't have money for anything else.
And no, the armaments expenditure was never passing through the parliament for approval before that period. Nobody knew how much we would spend for the S-300 for example.
Interesting to notice that you did not bother to check how much money the Government sucks from peoples collected interests for our so called "defense"-say commissions race.
Here's some more for you to think about:All salaries above 1500 euros are currently directly taxed (another law bearing the title of ektakti called ektakti eisfora gia tin amyna) from 2.5%-3.5%)
http://www.mof.gov.cy/mof/ird/ird.nsf/d ... 0&Expand=1
That's basically about 1.5-2.5% of the GDP) over and above what we already spend.
And you want to beleive figures that 2% is enough to build and maintain a reliable army? Think of that all you like it won't make it true ..

[Nikitas]

Defene costs are a funny thing.

To give an example. Greece can defend the whole of the Aegean with modern shore artillery and anti ship weapons installed on selected islands, the cost would be minimal compared to maintainig a navy. However, regardless of the effectivenes of the shore artillery it would not be a visible force, it would have no psychological value and it would not be there to show the flag when the Turkish navy holds its bombastic major exercises in the Aegean.

If essential effectiveness is the goal, the cost can be kept low. If you want to show the flag on parades and major exercises that are featured on the 8 pm news, then it will cost major money.

[Pyrpolizer]

Paphiti, whatever Cyprus spends, it's not enough. When you have neighbours like Turkey and assholes like B25 to deal with we always need more.

[Paphitis]

No you do not spend 10%. Don't pull those numbers out of your arse. Cyprus is spending closer to 4%.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS. ... /countries

And when Compulsory Service is abolished, that will decrease further to more like 2%.

Not only this, the benefits of just applying good career employment on its own far outweighs spending 0%.

Not to mention the fact that leaving the island Defenceless is the STUPIDESS thing in the world, just from a terrorism or border security point of you.

What are you going to do if 200,000 boat people come from Africa? Ask the Brits for help?

You are too sloppy in your searches.
And on top of it trusting the World bank to get such data when most of it is secret??
First of all those percentages are not based on GDP but on Government expenditure.
It's obvious that at best they only include salaries and pensions.
To get an idea how much we spend on armaments you have to do it indirectly. Start from the fact that all interests gained from deposits are taxed 30% and that tax goes directly to armaments.
In the good old times BOC was announcing profits almost near 1 billion.
Question:Was BOC making more profits than what the Gvnt was sucking from people's collected interests?
Do your maths step by step and you will find out in the good old times we were even spending more than 10% of our GDP.

Most of it is secret huh?

How is that even possible when you're owned by the Troika?

Here is another source: http://www.eda.europa.eu/info-hub/defen ... /year/2012

Total Expenditure €323 million
GDP 1.81% (2012)

http://www.eda.europa.eu/info-hub/defen ... /year/2012

For your information, maybe some of your purchases are secret but the expenditure certainly is not. It has to be approved by Parliament first of all, and you can't just fudge the books unless you want to be fucked even more by the Eurozone.

I don't even know why you would keep your purchases secret either. It's not as if you can hide anything.

I remember when the Hind Helicopters were suppose to be secret until they had to take off from Paphos Airport.

Furthermore, I doubt Cyprus would ever be allowed to spend even 5%. You won't be allowed because the lenders own your arses, but expenditure of 2 to 3% is easily justifiable and quite standard.

I am not talking for the post troika period.
I am certain that they now just go with running and maintenance expenses. They don't have money for anything else.
And no, the armaments expenditure was never passing through the parliament for approval before that period. Nobody knew how much we would spend for the S-300 for example.
Interesting to notice that you did not bother to check how much money the Government sucks from peoples collected interests for our so called "defense"-say commissions race.
Here's some more for you to think about:All salaries above 1500 euros are currently directly taxed (another law bearing the title of ektakti called ektakti eisfora gia tin amyna) from 2.5%-3.5%)
http://www.mof.gov.cy/mof/ird/ird.nsf/d ... 0&Expand=1
That's basically about 1.5-2.5% of the GDP) over and above what we already spend.
And you want to beleive figures that 2% is enough to build and maintain a reliable army? Think of that all you like it won't make it true ..

S500 Missile System will set you back $115 million USD with 40 missiles worth 1 million each.

The cost of all these systems are easily researched. And to be frank, it is pretty cheap.

A Cyprus National Guard need only cost you about 2% of GDP, 3% max. That is the normal outlay in most OECD nation.

The biggest expense Cyprus would have is buying 8 to 12 fighters at about 100 million USD each. But that is pretty cheap too considering the life cycle of each aircraft is about 20 years. Works out to about 5 million per aircraft per year. That also inured maintenance and parts. But, it's not about the money, you need the capability as a Nation otherwise you can't be taken seriously at all.

All the remainder such as Corvettes is chicken feed. Cyprus would only need about 3.

Further to this, the RoC publishes the figures it spends on Defence each year and it only exceeded 5% only slightly about 10 years ago.

If these figures are not accurate, then your Government is corrupt. There is no way an Australian or US government would get away with these shenanigans. There would be calls for heads to roll and probably senate inquiries all over the place.

If you say these things occur in Cyprus then it's nothing more than a tinpot. Sorry!

[Pyrpolizer]

Fascinating assumption that Cyprus in the future will never face any external threat therefore it needs no army. And no, external does not mean from Turkey or Greece.

Presumably there will be a coastguard, a sea rescue service, both of which need air craft to carry out their duties, an armed police force, some kind of border protection service run by the federal government, an anti terrorist unit. Now add all these together and they begin to look like what in normal countries they call armed forces.

Circumstances will bring about whatever is needed, whether we like it or not.

imo we would never be able to defend effectively against a major threat without some sort of alliance. The guarantors could be replaced by some defense agreement. Iceland for example is demilitarized while the US has undertaken her protection through a defense agreement.The question is what will we have to pay in return. Well, we do have gas reserves that could pay them on a fair basis, just like the Arabs in the Gulf do.

[B25]

Paphiti, whatever Cyprus spends, it's not enough. When you have neighbours like Turkey and assholes like Pyro to deal with we always need more.

Dipshit, if you want to quote me, then quote what I said, not the crap you amend to.

Axriste.

[Paphitis]

Defene costs are a funny thing.

To give an example. Greece can defend the whole of the Aegean with modern shore artillery and anti ship weapons installed on selected islands, the cost would be minimal compared to maintainig a navy. However, regardless of the effectivenes of the shore artillery it would not be a visible force, it would have no psychological value and it would not be there to show the flag when the Turkish navy holds its bombastic major exercises in the Aegean.

If essential effectiveness is the goal, the cost can be kept low. If you want to show the flag on parades and major exercises that are featured on the 8 pm news, then it will cost major money.

Artillery and anti ship batteries will be destroyed within hours.

The Turkish Air Force should decimate them with HARM (look it Up) and even if they managed to launch a couple at a ship, only about 10% or less may defeat the Close in Weapons Systems like Phalanx. That is if you're lucky. It's not about Flag waving.

They don't make these ships for a Billion each to be easily targeted by a missile. Not only that but with an Aegis a ship can interrogate more than 300 targets at the same time and engage them with its Guns, SSM, SAM etc. The only vulnerability is from the air, but they will also have their Jets providing cover as well.

The only way to hold your own is to have your own Jets and Ships.

It's not possible for Cyprus to compete with that. But Cyprus can have Israeli Manufactured Fast Attack Missile Patrol Boats and Corvettes. The Israelis have the most ideal gear for Cyprus and it's really cheap compared to buying Destroyers and Frigates which is unrealistic.

Israel has a fleet which mainly comprises small Corvettes. They do have a few Frigates but not many.