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What could Turkey do other than intervening militarily?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Piratis » Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:35 pm

You started making nonesense again... Being members of two etchnicaly distinct communities and being the members of same community living in different towns have nothing related. Keep making nonesense.. your nightmare is soon...

Nonsense? So you have more differences from us than we have from Maronites? We have more differences between each other than white and hispanic or black Americans have? Most countries today are multicultural. This doesn't mean that each community/minority should have 50% political rights. This is simply against democracy. We are all Cypriots and we should all be treated equally.

I wonder if TCs have been half of the Cyprus population would you support partition or equal power sharing in any form of United Cyprus. According to you both of them would lead us to partition... You have a very simple mind...


No, you have a very simple mind thats why you don't understand the even simpler things I am telling you. It doesn't matter if TC population is 18%, 50%, or 70%. We are all Cypriots and each Cypriot has one vote. What his/her religion or culture is doesn't matter.
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Postby iskismet » Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:44 pm

Insan - I have read and re-read your response (and the comments by others). I understand better your comments about equality. But of course because the earlier agreements do not formally recognise TCs as a minority it doesn't mean they can't now!

Unfortunately I cannot agree that the equivalent of 4 votes for a TC and 1 vote for a GC is democratic or fair - you need to explain to me more why you think it would be, and where else it works like that where there is such emnity between two peoples.

And which from that means I cannot see any solution except the status quo/partition.

If I were a GC I would not be willing to give up my majority status - try and put yourself in their shoes. From a TC point of view I also cannot understand why you would wish to give up the security you currently have.

Nothing is changing my mind that the island is going towards two distinct autonomous states - regretful as that may be.
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Postby Piratis » Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:45 pm

This debate is completely out dated. If ever there is a solution to our problem it will be based on full political equality.


This is what you Turks are trying to achieve, but no matter how many weapons you have you can not force something so unfair on us.

let me tell him, that partition is knocking on our door because we dare not offer the TC community its political equality status.


So two separate states with political equality. How more united we will be with this other state than lets say Lithuania? How is this different from partition? Oh, yes, my taxes will go to pay the welfare of settlers, thats the difference.
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Postby MicAtCyp » Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:45 pm

Insan gardash,

Insan wrote: Such things is impossible to be proved if they didn't call the UN officers to investigate and report it right after the incident took place


You must be kitting. During war time? In a situation of chaos?
And yes the one particular incident that I described can be verified, both from the UN and the Dhekelia british bases hospital. But was never used officially for propaganda purposes. The woman herself decided to appear live on TV (after 30 years!) to complain mostly for the rejection of her own society.

Second, the sister of my mother was a nurse at the Nicosia General Hospital. Do you think she was trying to propagandise by telling us-her family circle only - of what was going on at the Nicosia General Hospital until the end of 1974?

Third do you think Klerides legalised the abortions in 1974 for propaganda?

Fourth do you also doubt the Turk University proffessor Dr Kutchuk, who was an officer in the Turkish Army then? If yes then maybe I should go to ANT1 TV and ask a copy of the video.And upload it on the internet for you to see it.

Insan wrote: Ain't it your slogan which says "I will not forget."


However you are not sure as to what exactly we shall not forget do you? Well let me clarify it. All scholl defter (excercise books) have a photograph of Kyrenia on the cover and a banner "I shall not forget". What message would that give you if you were a GC schoolkid?

PS.1) You know very well that even during peace time the name of a victim of rape is never made public, nor any trial made available for public viewing. That's why I said the matter of the rapes was never used for official propaganda from our side because that would require evidence, like the one you are asking now. Such a thing would cause even more harm to the victims than the one already done. Did you see any official site referring in any other way to the rapes other than with generalisations like "many rapes" etc? The details given here are from us to you so as to learn some things you did not know.(like we learned many things we did not know from you). Not to propagandise!
2)What if I tell you that in August 1974 we met a very old man (around 75 years old) in Kakopetria village (up the Troodos mountains) who with tears in the eyes was telling us his sufferings after the Turkish troops entered his village. Would you beleive that very hessitatingly in the end-after my mother insisted and asked him directly if the reason he was crying was that- he told us that yes the Turks "teased" both him and his old wife? "Tease" is an alternative mild expression in Greek for "f*ck". Would you call that old man or me a lier and a propagandist?On the other hand if you don't want to beleive them, then don't beleive them.
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Postby MicAtCyp » Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:46 pm

Iskismet wrote: I can see both sides - something you are not able to do.


How on earth do you know of what I can see???
Yes perhaps I should be less tough with you, however just go back and count the times you were completely biased. Also if you want my advice, don't confuse my tough tone with hate.We are Mediteranean people we like shouting. Otherwise we get sleepy.
For your information I -in other forums- defended innumerable times the TCs against GC nationalists, in an even tougher tone.
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Postby MicAtCyp » Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:47 pm

Piratis wrote: You haven't realized yet that Turkey didn't come to Cyprus to restore the democratic order? What they wanted was an endless occupation, and they knew that they have a lot more chances to achieve this by occupying part of Cyprus.


Exactly! Furthermore Turkey would not be able to keep the situation under control by occupying all the island.
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Postby iskismet » Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:51 pm

You don't get it do you MicAtCyp - asking questions is the way you learn things - try it sometime! It doesn't mean a person is against you.
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Postby insan » Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:52 pm

Nonsense? So you have more differences from us than we have from Maronites? We have more differences between each other than white and hispanic or black Americans have? Most countries today are multicultural. This doesn't mean that each community/minority should have 50% political rights. This is simply against democracy. We are all Cypriots and we should all be treated equally.




TCs which a part of TC community majorly have been living in UK, Australia and some other countries have never asked a "political equality" other than in Cyprus, their homeland. Why? Let's see if your simple mind would guess why?



No, you have a very simple mind thats why you don't understand the even simpler things I am telling you. It doesn't matter if TC population is 18%, 50%, or 70%. We are all Cypriots and each Cypriot has one vote. What his/her religion or culture is doesn't matter.



Are you sure? So why you still don't accept just a single TC as a government employee in RoC?Why do you prefer to provide good jobs to the members of your community and all other jobs which the members of GC community don't like to do, you employed TCs and some employees from 3rd world countries?

What? Because of the occupation?

What? Because we don't accept to be a minority?


Hahahahaha! Excuses, excuses excuses to disguise the ones discrimination guilt...
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Postby insan » Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:57 pm

Piratis wrote:
You haven't realized yet that Turkey didn't come to Cyprus to restore the democratic order? What they wanted was an endless occupation, and they knew that they have a lot more chances to achieve this by occupying part of Cyprus.


Exactly! Furthermore Turkey would not be able to keep the situation under control by occupying all the island.



Endless occupation with no reason damages Turkeys international relations but occupation untill a fair, secure, viable solution reached doesn't harm Turkey. That's the situation of Turkey in Cyprus and whole world is aware of it except some of the GCs.
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Postby erolz » Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:04 pm

iskismet wrote:Unfortunately I cannot agree that the equivalent of 4 votes for a TC and 1 vote for a GC is democratic or fair - you need to explain to me more why you think it would be, and where else it works like that where there is such emnity between two peoples.


The concept is that for issues that relate solely to 'individuals' then one individual one vote is fair and democratic. For issues that relate to communites then one community one vote is fair and democratic. The concept of numerical minorites having equal status / rights as a 'group' with other numericaly greater groups is nothing new - the concept exists in many forms aroiund the world. It is an issue of what the 'unit' of democracy should be. For some issue it should be the individual. For some the community and for some the state (made up of agreement of the communites that make up the state and in turn the individuals that make up the community). One community one fifth of the vote is not democratic or fair - if you agree on 'equality' of the communites. It is fair if you agree on one being 'lesser' and 'subservient' and 'dominated' by the other - something that has never been acceptable to TC in their homeland. Hopefully that is a bit clearer for you iskismet?
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