Cyprus-Forum.com

[Mike]

How can there be peace when 'your' people propagate such things?

Hi.
What things of those things are not true? Everything is true there. People lost their own homes. you want them now to love those that did this to them? We can forgive, but first the land should be given to the the legal owners.

[Piratis]

iskismet, there is a difference between "willingness to forgive" and "forgiveness".
We want to forgive, but we can't because our country is still occupied today. When occupation will become past, then we will forgive.

And the criminals who murdered TCs 1963 to 1970 - will they also be brought to justice.

I believe that they should have been brought to justice, yes. But did I support their actions? Are those actions continuing today with my support? No. When occupation becomes a past, and when they admit that what they did was wrong the way we said that those crimes where crimes and not "peace operations", then we can forgive each other and move ahead.

[iskismet]

Mike, if you don't know what is wrong with that website, then I can't tell you. If you genuinely cannot see it then I despair of there ever being peace.

Piratis - it remains the case that whenever you are upset you quote numbers of dead. GC dead that is.

How about quoting the dead on both sides when you are irritated - after all TCs are just as much Cypriots as GCs - aren't they?

[insan]

Turkey used the coup as an excuse to invade our country.

If Turkey's intention had been to invade Cyprus, she could seize her power to entire island did not bother weather it would cause more blood shed or not.

The killed 6000 people most of them innocents.

While there were 20.000 armed soldiers and thousands of armed civilian combatants, turkey especially looked for the innocents to kill.

Almost the same percentage of TCs were killed by GC terrorists and Greek soldiers.

200.000 refugees as a result of their invasion.

1/3 of GCs became refugees, on the other hand 2/3 of TCs also became refugees as a consequence of EOKA-Bs and their backers illegal actions and violations.

1500 missing people

TCs have 500 missings... the same percentage per population ratio.

They raped under age girls.

Just a propaganda to erase your guilt and agitate the issue towards your interests.

Those criminals should be punished for these. Are you going to support these murderers?

Yeah... All criminals should be punished long before the year 2004. But unfortunately, neither our leaders and politicians nor the majority of Cypriots jointly struggled for this purpose.

Where have the criminals of 1963-67 gone?
Where have the criminals of 1971-74 gone?
[/quote]

[insan]

iskismet, there is a difference between "willingness to forgive" and "forgiveness".
We want to forgive, but we can't because our country is still occupied today. When occupation will become past, then we will forgive.

If you had accepted the "political equality" of TC community; the Cyprus problem would have been solved in second part of the 70s and there would have been no occupation in todays Cyprus. As long as you insist on degrading TC community to a minority; be sure of that the occupation won't be lasted. The ones who think like you not only violate the rights of GC refugees but also violate the rights of whole TCs. In this situation, the properties exchange agreement should be made immediately and rest of the land that doesn't belong to TCs should be given back to their owners. Noone have to wait the GC elite to accept TCs as an "politicaly equal" partner....

[Piratis]

If Turkey's intention had been to invade Cyprus, she could seize her power to entire island did not bother weather it would cause more blood shed or not.

Occupying the whole Cyprus was against the interests of the Anglo Americans.

While there were 20.000 armed soldiers and thousands of armed civilian combatants, turkey especially looked for the innocents to kill.

They were bombing cities and villages killing everybody. There are even videos showing this!

Almost the same percentage of TCs were killed by GC terrorists and Greek soldiers.

Now, you remembered "percentages"?

1/3 of GCs became refugees, on the other hand 2/3 of TCs also became refugees as a consequence of EOKA-Bs and their backers illegal actions and violations.

You said that by 1970 most TCs left the enclaves and returned to their villeges (run to edit your posts).

Just a propaganda to erase your guilt and agitate the issue towards your interests.

These are facts, not propaganda.

Yeah... All criminals should be punished long before the year 2004. But unfortunately, neither our leaders and politicians nor the majority of Cypriots jointly struggled for this purpose.

Where have the criminals of 1963-67 gone?
Where have the criminals of 1971-74 gone?

Is this an excuse to continue to act in a criminal way today?
Even during those years, more crimes were commited against GCs (communists etc) than TCs.

[Piratis]

How about quoting the dead on both sides when you are irritated - after all TCs are just as much Cypriots as GCs - aren't they?

I am quoting not only dead, but also refugees that continue to be refugees today. I do this because some people are trying to excuse the killing and the violation of human rights of those people. Have you ever seen me supporting the killings of any TCs?

[insan]

Occupying the whole Cyprus was against the interests of the Anglo Americans.

I'm not talking about an endless occupation, just to eliminate the criminals who were undermining the RoCs democratic order and frightening the TC community in 1967-74 period.

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They were bombing cities and villages killing everybody. There are even videos showing this!

I've watched those videos... they were bombing the military targets in those cities. There were outposts and armed soldier positions in every city. Especially on top of every big structure.

Now, you remembered "percentages"?

What do you mean?

You said that by 1970 most TCs left the enclaves and returned to their villeges (run to edit your posts).

Why. It is true that most of them had returned to their homes in 1967 - 74 period and the negotiations were going well among the leadership of two communities. When Grivas secretly returned to Cyprus, formed EOKA-B and started their illegal actions; TCs once again started to fear of their lives. It is obvious that Grivas' and his gangs aim was Enosis. They were decisive to destroy all of the obstacles in front of enosis. Makarios and his supporters, leftists were the firs target and TCs the second. After they had owerthrown Makarios, the time had come to destroy the TCs.

These are facts, not propaganda.

Yes... I had forgot it. Everything you claim are the facts.

Is this an excuse to continue to act in a criminal way today?
.

Does it sound as an excuse or have I ever supported the status-quo? What I'm emphasizing is that as long as GCs don't accept the "political equality" of TCs the status-quo will exist. In this process, the exchange of properties and giving a part of land back to GCs may be put in agenda.

Even during those years, more crimes were commited against GCs (communists etc) than TCs

It is true for 1967-74 period, not for 1963-67 period.

[MicAtCyp]

TCs were being killed, immediate decisions were required - the negotiation/UN path is too slow, you can see that even now in other areas of the world.

When you say they were being killed do you have any figures in mind kismettiri?
Second do you know by whom they were killed and how?
Third do you know how many GCs were killed, by whom and how during the same time?

Furthermore do you have any figures from January to June 1974? If yes then give them to us and explain us the urgency for an intervention/invasion that you supported in your post.

I noticed your whole paricipation in here is that of generalisations and vague understandings, most of it deriving from Turkish propaganda.

Anyway to save you some of the trouble:

Please refer to this Turkish book pages 109-114 Ηay, Abdulhaluk. Kύbrύs’ta Kanlύ Noel, 1963. Ankara: Tόrk Kόltόrόnό Arastύrma Enstitόsό, 1989.
You will see that during the years of "massacres" the death toll in Cyprus was 79 TCs in 1963, and 136 TCs in 1964 plus an approximately equal number of Greekcypriots. In a population of about 120,000 TCs and 480,000 GCs. This is less than 1 death per thousand !!
The death toll from car accidents today is 10 times higher!!

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They raped under age girls.

Just a propaganda to erase your guilt and agitate the issue towards your interests.

Please Insan, thats not a propaganda. On the contrary, to save the privacy of the victims and the negative effects of publicity to their lives the exact numbers were never published and the names are still undisclosed. We do know however that until the end of 1974 Klerides legalised the abortions and we had hundreds of underaged girls raped by the Turks doing abortions at the Nicosia General Hospital. Contrary to what you said this issue was never used for propaganda!!

Heres a copy of a recent post of mine

Last night there was an interview with a woman on ANT1 TV who was tortured and raped in 1974. She had no teeth, she was 16 in 1974, i.e she must be 46 today, but she looked like 60 to me.
Her story in summary is as follows:She went to see a TC friend of hers called Hamide (or something).On the way she met a lot of Turkish Tanks and Turkish soldiers.A TC took her inside a house where an old Greek Cypriot that could not move was staying.He beat her on the face broke her glasses, and broke all her teath.Then he teared off her skirt and called the Turkish soldiers in.They were raping her in serial from 5 o’clock in the afternoon until the morning of next day a total of 30 soldiers, in front of the old man who was begging them not to kill her.The soldiers thought she was his daughter. She lost her senses and got hemmorage.A turkish officer came in the morning and threw the soldiers out.He showed her a photograph of his wife and children (obviously trying to tell her he was a family man and would protect her) and stayed with her for 2-3 hours until the soldiers and the tanks left the place.Then told her to run away because they would eventually kill her.She run and met a UN man.The UN then took her to the British bases hospital...Needless to say that the woman today is a psychological wreck.Could be clearly noticed on TV. Her biggest complain was that her own family rejected her calling her "a prostitute". But -she said- it was not my fault that they raped me , I was a virgin girl not a prostitute....But still her family don't want her.

Then the program continued with another story from a seemingly rich lady.She heard baby cryings inside a dark warehouse in Larnaca and getting in she met a hungry girl around 19 having two (twin) babies with her.Her family did not want her.Brought food and milk to her and then brought her to her own house in Nicosia.That girl was raped from many Turkish soldiers who kept her hostige in a house in 1974. After the war she came to the free areas but it was very late to have an abortion.The father of those twins was one of the rapists.The rich lady after a few weeks took the girl by the hand and went to Larnaca to talk to the parents.Not only the parents but also the brothers and sisters almost kicked the rich lady and the girl out of the house.Once again the girl was "a prostitute" for them.

And a final strory in the program.Dr Kutchuk a Turkish Academic living in Turkey now.He was an officer in the Turkish Army then.He showed a banch of handwritten notes of his.These he said are my notes from the war. This page concerns a rape. I heard but did not have the courage to go and see that behind the wall there was a woman.And they were raping her simultaneously from both sides every time (front and behind).By the time a soldier told me already 60 soldiers have raped her.And then Dr Kutchuk started crying and the cameraman stopped the interview...

[insan]

Please Insan, thats not a propaganda. On the contrary, to save the privacy of the victims and the negative effects of publicity to their lives the exact numbers were never published and the names are still undisclosed. We do know however that until the end of 1974 Klerides legalised the abortions and we had hundreds of underaged girls raped by the Turks doing abortions at the Nicosia General Hospital. Contrary to what you said this issue was never used for propaganda!!

Brother MicAtCyp.


Such things is impossible to be proved if they didn't call the UN officers to investigate and report it right after the incident took place. If I told you that 300 under aged TC girls and 500 TC women were raped in between the dates 20th of July and 17th of August do you believe me. And you know if the aim is propaganda you can easily find some volunteers or hire them to play the game in order to give your propaganda message...


It is a well known fact that the vast majority of GCs hate Turkey and I'm sure there are so many volunteers to play a part in this disgusting scenario in order to strenghten the hate feelings against Turkey. With this methods of propaganda they think they make it unforgettable. Ain't it your slogan which says "I will not forget."


How can you expect us to believe that it is true.