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[GreekIslandGirl]

You are such a pro at making up one story after another story after another story after .....

What an Odyssey you've made up for Schengen.

[erolz66]

As far as it not being a 'sanction' - yes here the EU claims doing such is not a sanction. I disagree with them on this point

Here we have it after months of asking you for the quote of were the EC was supposed have made such a threat as you claimed, and all you did was evade and divert - and now we have it that you 100% lied and now have the audacity to 'disagree' with them.

Tough.

Stop making stuff up!

I am not making stuff up.

If in response to the EU publicly stating that Greece has been found to be seriously deficient in an evaluation report on Greece, you had replied that 'yes the EU evaluation report found this, but I think the report is wrong ' that would have been a rational argument.

Stating the EU commission did NOT find Greece seriously deficient in said report, claiming they found Frontex seriously deficient in said report, claiming an entirely different report that it self explicitly says does not cover the time period in which the evaluation report on Greece is concluded IS the evaluation report on Greece - that is all 'making stuff up' and is what you have been doing relentlessly for three plus months now.

[GreekIslandGirl]

If the level of Frontex cover wasn't deficient, why have they increased the presence of Frontex so much? And also boosted it with the "Agency". And also boosted it with NATO?

Sure, sure, it was adequate.

[erolz66]

If the level of Frontex cover wasn't deficient, why have they increased the presence of Frontex so much? And also boosted it with the "Agency". And also boosted it with NATO?

Sure, sure, it was adequate.

Classic 'false logic' just one of many techniques you use here on this forum, that you have always used on this forum.

That the level of 'frontex cover' may or may not have be sufficient in no way means that Greece could therefore not itself also be seriously deficient in meeting IT's obligation, as the evaluation report on Greece clearly stated it was. It is perfectly possible that frontex cover was insufficient AND Greece was also seriously deficient in meeting it's obligations, as the evaluation report on Greece clearly stated it was. Requiring an increase in Frontex cover AND Greece to stop being seriously deficient in meeting IT's obligations. The EU sought to address BOTH issues. Increase frontex cover AND place pressure on Greece to rectify IT's identified 'serious deficiencies'.

Samoe old same old.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Another ... 'duh'.

So now the WHOLE of the EU was deficient in meeting this "unprecedented crisis" of illegal migrants from Turkey!

- Yet you were stuck trying to blame Greece only!

Finally, some progress ...

[supporttheunderdog]

Another ... 'duh'.

So now the WHOLE of the EU was deficient in meeting this "unprecedented crisis" of illegal migrants from Turkey!

- Yet you were stuck trying to blame Greece only!

Finally, some progress ...

A classic distortion, same old, same old, ignoring that the criticism of Greece is directed at specific deficiencies identified in visits in November, which If Greece had been on the ball it could and should have dealt with earlier. As it was Greece did not adk for aid to deal with them until 3rd December. So far i have only seen evasion when asking why Greece waited till then, when she should have known of theses deficiencies and could indeed should have sought aid far earlier: they did not arise overnight.

Same old same old.

The reactive stance of Greece is to be contrasted with proactive stance of the EU, and where the problems of Greece not reaacting to the crises but allowing serioys deficiencies to develop may well be the motivstion behind the enhanced role of Frontex, in particular the ability to step in uninvited, if not against the wishes of a member state.

I know you will try to point to other earlier aid requests, but were they to deal with the problems identified in November 2015 or other aspects of the migrancy crises? Aid is highly compartmentalised, in particular in a rulebound heavily structered enity like the EU.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Those 'deficiencies' are ALL to do with the SHARED or JOINT management of the EU External Border.

Greece recognised the deficiency left by Frontex's lack of enough presence and asked for help last May but the EU was too busy INVITING more illegal migrants over!

Frontex has since had a number of face-lifts and is receiving some help from its role model - called NATO.

[supporttheunderdog]

Those 'deficiencies' are ALL to do with the SHARED or JOINT management of the EU External Border.

Greece recognised the deficiency left by Frontex's lack of enough presence and asked for help last May but the EU was too busy INVITING more illegal migrants over!

Frontex has since had a number of face-lifts and is receiving some help from its role model - called NATO.

And i have already pointed out your delusions about the nature of the shared role, where you wilfully misrepresent what Frontex is and what its role is, in your desperate attempts to show them as bad and greece as innocent. That is your agenda despite it ibeing totally out of conformity with the restricted Role of FRONTEX, as defined in law, as at November last year.

The official Request to Frontex in respect of the deficiencies was made in December. The inspection was in November. I cannot see how anything requested so far before in May would have been linked to the later identied deficiencies.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Those 'deficiencies' are ALL to do with the SHARED or JOINT management of the EU External Border.

Greece recognised the deficiency left by Frontex's lack of enough presence and asked for help last May but the EU was too busy INVITING more illegal migrants over!

Frontex has since had a number of face-lifts and is receiving some help from its role model - called NATO.

And i have already pointed out your delusions about the nature of the shared role,

Keep up!

e.g.

.......establish a European Border and Coast Guard to ensure a strong and shared management of the external borders.

European Commission First Vice-President Frans Timmermans said: "In an area of free movement without internal borders, managing Europe’s external borders must be a shared responsibility.

Therefore, it is now time to move to a truly integrated system of border management.

The official Request to Frontex in respect of the deficiencies was made in December. The inspection was in November. I cannot see how anything requested so far before in May would have been linked to the later identied deficiencies.

Because you're an idiot! First you complain that they asked too late because they asked two weeks after the inspection then you complain that they asked too early. Make your mind up!

Greece has been under stress for years with this! Frontex came and went when it felt like it (or when Turkey threatened them.)

[GreekIslandGirl]

Here - mr new-kid on the block with EU affairs - Greece's challenge was recognised several years ago:

FRONTEX OPERATIONAL OFFICE OPENS IN PIRAEUS
2010-10-01

......... represents the Agency’s first premises outside its Warsaw HQ and is a pilot programme to test the effectiveness of strengthening Frontex’s regional presence to enhance coverage of the concrete operational and practical needs of Member States in the operational area of the EU’s southern borders.

In the presence of a host of international dignitaries from the region including Mr Christos Papoutsis, Minister of Citizen Protection of Greece, as well as Frontex Management Board Members from the Member States of the FOO operational area — Cyprus, Greece, Italy and Malta — and FOO staff, the ceremony featured a speech by Directorate C Migration and Borders Jean Louis de Brouwer and a briefing by Frontex Executive Director Illka Laitinen, prior to a ribbon-cutting ceremony.

Director De Brouwer said: “Greece is the Member State confronted with the biggest challenge. This is not a Greek problem, it is an EU issue,” going on to emphasise that solidarity, as a fundamental principle of the EU, was embodied by Frontex. “This operational office is the first of its kind,” he said. “It cannot fail. It simply cannot fail. […] FOO is an absolutely essential element of Frontex’s development. Failure of this centre is not an option.”

Frontex