Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz66]

The rank stench of your hypocrisy is palpable.

In order to try and support your lie that I was claiming Greece had been threatened with expulsion, something I myself never claimed and something that I was the one who explicitly pointed out was not possible under current Schengen laws, you took a quote I had given of a Cyprus Mail headline and directly attributed that headline to me personally [url="http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus44489-90.html#p835181]here[/url], out of all the context of why I had quoted that headline and without any link to the original post.

Now

I don't appreciate you distorting what I say to such extremes as if to pigeonhole me and then bash the extremes instead of what I said.

When I quote your own words verbatim, complete with a link to the original post so that the full context can be easily seen by anyone.

This then is how you behave on these forums. This is how you have always behaved on these forums.

[GreekIslandGirl]

The deficiencies are in the external borders!

Council adopts recommendation to address deficiencies in external borders.

The external borders are a joint responsibility!

Several countries have been criticized for not sending help as they should via Frontex.

[GreekIslandGirl]

In order to try and support your lie that I was claiming Greece had been threatened with expulsion,

You supported what you believed with media headlines:

cyprus43551-50.html?hilit=expulsion#p834853

Trying to be sarcastic doesn't give you a later out clause.

....something I myself never claimed and something that I was the one who explicitly pointed out was not possible under current Schengen laws,

This you found out after I took you up on your ridiculous claims as I knew the EU Commission would not have made such threats!

(Gawd, it must be really hurting for you to keep on and on trying to dig up any way out of an admission of how blunderbustingly wrong you've been in your evaluations! )

[supporttheunderdog]

Can you provide a verifiable link to an EU document which states

The external borders are a joint responsibility!

Several countries have been criticized for not sending help as they should via Frontex.

?

I have drawn your attention to EC 2007/2004 and para 4 which clearly states EU External borders are the responsibility of the Nation State


In the meantime the recommendation says

[b]Greece should[/b]
A) for the sites visited at the sea border:
Registration procedure
1. clearly state in the documents of 'suspension of removal' which are provided to the irregular
migrants during the registration process, that the document does not give the irregular migrant the
right to stay and enter other Member States, and include, where necessary, certain obligations aimed
at avoiding the risk of absconding (in line with Article 7(3) of the Return Directive);
2. improve the quality of the 'temporary stay' documents, including certain security features, making
it less easy to falsify the documents;
3. reinforce the Hellenic Police (HP) staffing for registration;
4. provide, taking into account the expected number of migrants arriving based on a risk assessment
approach, the necessary facilities for accommodation during the registration process (including for
vulnerable persons);
5. carry out systematic checks of irregular migrants' travel documents for signs of falsification or
counterfeiting and check migrants and their travel documents against SIS, Interpol and national
databases during the registration process, in order to do that, passport scanners should be used in the
registration procedure;
6. perform registration in line with the Article 14 of the Eurodac regulation, by ensuring timely
collection and transmission of migrants' fingerprints;
7. provide an adequate number of functioning fingerprint scanners and Eurodac terminals with
direct access to the Eurodac system to guarantee that all arriving migrants are registered and make
sure that they are supported by adequate and sufficient IT capacity (uninterrupted internet,
broadband);
8. increase the quality of finger prints taken manually during the registration process so that it meets
the standards required to be registered in the EURODAC system;
9. take appropriate measures to ensure that all irregular migrants are fully identified, fingerprinted
and registered into Eurodac whilst fully respecting fundamental rights and human dignity;
10. immediately launch return procedures for irregular migrants who are not seeking asylum and
who are not in need of international protection, in line with the Return Directive (2008/115), and
provide for a swift transfer of third-country nationals who are eligible to be returned and readmitted
to Turkey in accordance with the bilateral Protocol between Greece and Turkey, ensuring their
physical transfer, while taking appropriate measures to prevent absconding.
Border surveillance
12. taking measures to improve sea border surveillance by establishing a comprehensive and
effective coastal surveillance system covering the whole sea border between Greece and Turkey;
the surveillance system should provide the possibility to detect all vessels, including small boats
that are crossing the sea border from Turkey to Greece; in order to identify, detect and apprehend
illegal border crossers, the system should be supported by an offshore element: offshore patrol boats
and vessels, helicopters, fixed wing aircraft and other means, as well as a sufficient number of land
patrols on the island;
13. ensure, in the short term, sufficient patrolling activity especially between the islands, as well as
a sufficient number of patrol boats kept in readiness for rapid reaction;
14. consider, in order to ensure full situational awareness, the sharing of information between the
relevant authorities involved and the Coast Guard;
Risk analyses
15. establish and implement at local level, as soon as possible, a risk analysis system;
16. nominate and train the necessary personnel at local level for carrying out risk analysis activities;
17. familiarise the first line border guards with the common foreign terrorist fighters risk indicators;

International cooperation
18. consider to establish cooperation with the Turkish border control authorities at local level as it
exists at the land border with Turkey;
Human resources and training
19. increase training at the local level especially on forged and falsified documents, risk analysis
and updated legislation; this could also be done by the exchange of officers between BCP's as well
as by making better use of the available Frontex tools with regard to forged and falsified
documents;
20. provide language training to border guards with a particular focus on Turkish and English;
21. train more border guards to be able to work at the second line check with devices for advanced
checks of the travel documents;
Border checks procedures
22. bring border checks on EU citizens in line with the Commission recommendation of 15 June
2015 on EU citizens coming from risk areas;
23. intensify the use of relevant document analysis tools in order to ensure efficient document fraud
detection;
24. provide third country nationals who are subject to a thorough second line check with written
information on the purpose and procedure for such a check in accordance with Article 7(5) of the
Schengen Border Code;
25. issue the visa fully in line with the Visa code by integrating the photo of the visa applicant in the
visa sticker;
26. perform checks on cruise ships based on the crew and passenger list, in line with Annex VI
3.2.3 (b) of the Schengen Border Code;
27. perform checks on pleasure boats coming from third countries at a border crossing points;
28. conduct third country nationals' border checks in line with Article 7 of the SBC, especially by
carrying out interviews on entry conditions such as purpose of stay and means of subsistence
(border crossing point Chios);
29. bring the procedure to annul or revoke a visa at the border in line with Article 34 of the Visa
Code (border crossing point Chios);
30. take appropriate measures to ensure access to iFado for the border guards at the BCP (Samos);
Infrastructure and equipment
31. take appropriate measures to provide the first line control booths with magnifying devices in
order to enhance the document checks;
32. improve the conditionality of the control booth shelter in order to prevent unauthorized persons
from observing the computer screen;
33. ensure that all border guards involved in border checks are able to access and use the updated
versions of the Schengen Borders Code (SBC), the Schengen Handbook (SHB) and respective
Annexes;
34. ensure the proper functioning of the visa fingerprint scanners at the control booths in order to
carry out the checks on third country nationals who are in possession of a visa in line with Article 7,
paragraph 3(aa) of the SBC (border crossing point Chios);
35. provide the possibility for border guards at the Port of Chios to observe the passenger flow e.g.
by installing a video surveillance system (CCTV);
36. ensure that the recommendations 31 to 35 on infrastructure and equipment are taken into
account when building the new passenger terminal in Samos.
B) for the sites visited at the land border
Police directorate Orestiada
37. develop more comprehensive situational awareness and the role of the Regional Coordination
Centre by integrating functions currently covered by the Regional Control Centre and Nea Vyssa
centre; this could be done for instance by relocating the surveillance centre from Nea Vyssa to the
regional I.B.M. & Monitoring centre at the PD Orestiada, to ensure a more comprehensive
situational picture and allowing the latter centre to monitor and operate more effectively in one
place; this development would also save human resources;
38. finalise the installation of GPS transmitters to the patrolling vehicles or units to enable the
surveillance centre to monitor their location;
39. continue with the efforts for strengthening the cooperation with Bulgaria and Turkey and to
participate actively in the future activities of the 'Trilateral Common Contact Center for police and
customs cooperation';
Reception center Fylakio
Registration procedure
40. take appropriate measures to provide an adequate number of Eurodac terminals, taking into
account the expected number of migrants arriving based on a risk assessment approach, to
guarantee that they are all registered in the Eurodac system;
41. ensure the availability of a sufficient number of screening experts and make an effort to provide
a sufficient number of interpreters in the languages required in order to cope with any potential
mass influx of irregular migrants;
42. perform systematic checks of irregular migrants and their travel documents against SIS, Interpol
(SLDT) and national databases during the registration process; provide and develop the necessary
capacity (expertise and equipment) to check the authenticity of travel documents, in line with
Article 12 SBC in combination with Article 7 SBC;

BCP Kastanies
Human resources and training
43. increase the number of staff per shift at BCP Kastanies and ensure the deployment of at least
one officer in the second line in order to guarantee smooth border crossing and to avoid irregular
crossings and long queuing, in line with Article 14 and 15 of the SBC;
Infrastructure and equipment
44. extend the VIS verification application (CVIS) in order to provide the first line with all
information stored inside the VIS in order to facilitate the examination of the entry conditions;
45. take appropriate measures to ensure that all electronic resources are updated regularly;
46. reallocate the heart beat detector at the BCP Kastanies since there is no cargo traffic allowed to
cross at this BCP to another BCP at the Greek land borders or ports where it can be used for the
border checks of heavy good vehicles;
47. bring the current infrastructure in line with the Schengen requirements with a comprehensive
development plan taking into account all Schengen requirements including traffic management,
control booths, lanes, surveillance system and fencing;
48. improve traffic management and surveillance of at the border crossing point to ensure that
border checks are carried out systematically;
Border checks procedures
49. ensure that persons subjected to thorough second line checks are informed in advance about the
purpose of such a check;

C) General Recommendation
50. take appropriate measures to ensure that at all external borders of Greece, external border
control is carried out and brought in line with the Schengen Acquis in order not to jeopardise the
functioning of the Schengen area.

No other mention of other states!

[erolz66]

But this is an example of how you distort, lie and twist:

You took my comment made: Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:04 pm

from:

cyprus43551-40.html

- and applied it to a document published at a later date: 12 February 2016

I took your comments from Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:04 pm that were about this press release where you claimed

Meanwhile the evaluation it will be based on does NOT criticise Greece but offers solutions, such as using Frontex more. Other countries are indeed criticized

And showed how totally and utterly wrong you were then about which evaluation document would be used by the Council to make decisions, and if that report was about Greece alone or not - by showing the subsequent EU Council decision itself, that so clearly and absolutely was NOT based on an evaluation report that did 'NOT criticise Greece', as you had previously claimed.

Nevertheless, the recommendations adopted - from even the later document - have been as I said - not what you claimed "expulsion" and "sanctions" - but more help from Frontex.

Again just total distortion of actual reality. The full list of the 50 separate recommendations laid out by the EU Commission and adopted by the Council can be seen here. Frontex is mentioned ONCE in one single recommendation of the entire 50

19. increase training at the local level especially on forged and falsified documents, risk analysis and updated legislation; this could also be done by the exchange of officers between BCP's as well as by making better use of the available Frontex tools with regard to forged and falsified documents;

This single recommendation out of the 50 is that Greece make better use of frontex. The 49 other recommendations as to what Greece needs to do make no mention of Frontex what so ever. This REALITY is then spun by you as being 'The recommendation are about more help from Frontex'.

This then is what you do. This is what you have always done here.

[GreekIslandGirl]

We have one person clearly taking comments from one date and retroactively using them for matters arising at a later date and we have another one posting random documents with words left out and ignoring whole joint/sister documents that present the WHOLE picture of the Schengen area evaluation and yet still ignoring the realpolitik of what is recommended and what is actually DONE!

This is what you both do - this is what you both always do.

That's enough!

I've been through it with you before - and you are just flailing because of how wrong you have been in your evaluations!

[erolz66]

You supported what you believed with media headlines:

I total lie. I never argued that Greece had been threatened with expulsion. I explicitly was the one who pointed out that there was no mechanism under current laws by which the EU could expel Greece from schengen permanently. I used those headlines specifically to show how utterly absurd your claim that 'there was no basis what so ever on which to claim Greece had been threaten with suspension and that I had made the whole thing up out of thin air' were.

This has been explained over and over and over and is totally supported by all the evidence of what I actually posted and the context in which I did so. Yet you just repeat the lie on and on regardless. This is what you do on these forums. This is what you have always done here.

Trying to be sarcastic doesn't give you a later out clause.

There is nothing sarcastic in showing your rank hypocrisy - where by you claim I am distorting what you said when I quote your own words verbatim complete with a link to the original posts, and yet you have previously falsely attributed directly to me a headline from a newspaper I quoted previously, with no link to the original post - all in order to try and support your lies about why I quoted that headline.

[GreekIslandGirl]

... I explicitly was the one who pointed out that there was no mechanism under current laws by which the EU could expel Greece from schengen permanently.

You mean, like here:

cyprus43551-80.html

.... after I hounded you for a week to get you to search for some (non-existent) support to your (false) claims?

Why was I confident you were wrong?

Knowledge ....

[erolz66]

We have one person clearly taking comments from one date and retroactively using them for matters arising at a later date and we have another one posting random documents with words left out and ignoring whole joint/sister documents that present the WHOLE picture of the Schengen area evaluation and yet still ignoring the realpolitik of what is recommended and what is actually DONE!

You made claims about which evaluation report would be used, in the coming weeks, to make EU Council decisions. Not once, but systematically and repeatedly. One such claim was

Meanwhile the evaluation it will be based on does NOT criticise Greece but offers solutions, such as using Frontex more. Other countries are indeed criticized

This claim of yours, this prediction of the future of what evaluation report would be used in the future to make decisions, that you made over and over and over again, is proven to be totally incorrect by the evidence of subsequent EU Commission Implementing decision which shows absolutely and clearly that the evaluation report they DID use is NOT the one that you had previous systematically claimed they would use.

Schengen evaluation of Greece: Council adopts recommendation to address deficiencies in external borders

On 12 February 2016, the Council adopted a recommendation on addressing serious deficiencies identified during an evaluation of Greece's application of the Schengen acquis in the area of external border management. The recommendation proposes to Greece remedial action to address these deficiencies.

Of course you can not stand being proven to have been so systematically wrong, over and over and over. Of course you will try and use every technique of distraction, distortion, diversion and more besides to try and dull the impact of you having been proven to be so wrong so many times. None of that changes the simple FACT that you were wrong, clearly so and clearly have absolutely no ability to admit that you were wrong.

[erolz66]

Did the Council of the European Union, in it's Implementing Decision of the 12 February 5985/16 base it's decision on an evaluation report that was NOT critical of Greece and that criticised other countries more than Greece, or on an evaluation report that WAS critical of Greece and was only about Greece ?

That this question even needs to be asked just shows how absurd your argument has been / is GiG and how totally and fundamentally wrong you were, not once, but over and over and over again.

That this question has been asked before here and you have proven that you will not and indeed can not answer it shows how incapable your are of admitting that you were wrong regardless of the overwhelming and irrefutable evidence that you were.