Cyprus-Forum.com

[supporttheunderdog]

Both of you, erolz and stud, have been screaming 'sanctions' and 'expulsion' despite the evaluations recommending more help for Greece.

I stated, in perfectly plain normal text, that. "the EU Commission is criticising and threatening sanctions against Greece." I accepted more than once that you can argue what does or does not constitute a threat.

Finding where the EU Commission actually made such a threat would have been a start.

Instead, you chose to jump from document to document trying to piece together something, anything to support your lying claims. Your further nonsense on "expulsion" cobbled together from media headlines was a joke!

It hasn't happened!

What purpose would it serve to 'expel' Greece or 'sanction' Greece? To please you?

The documents are linked in sequence, and suspension of Greece from Schengen has not happened yet (and might not happen) because under article 19b Greece has 3 months from the council decision, last week ,mto take remedial action, which Greece is now doing. The cruch point will come in May, when the council will assess progress. I sincerely hope that Greece will, with the help now on offer, manage to do enough that the possible sanction of suspension need not be imposed. However what your rant reveals, or rather confirms, is that you do not understand what is going on and how the process works.

It is quite simple, the EU inspects a selection of countries for compliance with Schengen requirements, and every six months or so issues a Biannual report. It issued the 8th on 15th December. At that time visits to Greece had been performed but the result were not yet then fully assesed. That is why the report contained no criticism of Greece, Not that Greece was not deficient (She was, and seriously so) but that the analysis of the deficiencies was not complete.

The extent of the problem with the individual assessement of Greece were reported to the commission around 26th. A press release (not discussion document, a malicious lie by you) was issued by the Commission on 27th. Then the commission adopted the report, on 2nd Feb, as explained in a Press release of 3rd Feb. Then the report went to the council. They decided to impose requirements on Greece to improve, under article 19b of the SBC. Greece has three months to meet required standards. If not then she may well be suspended under Article 26.

The 8th Biannual report stated that Greece had been warned that if she was found to be in serious violation then she risked that steps would be taken under article 19b, and therafter, possibly under article 26.

The press release of 27th Jan explicitly referenced the warning made in the 8th Biannual report.

The press release of 3rd Feb rported the Commission had confirmed that position.

The recent council decision was to implement measures under article 19b. That is imposition of measures to deal with the serious violations, with three months for completion. I repeat, I hope that Greece succeeds. If not? Then we see, in May

Have you know got it through your thick head what is happpening, or are you still in Denial.

And the reason there was no Grexit was because the Tsipoura gave way to the EU, despite his promises and an apparent mandate to stand firm against the demands for Austerity. I repeat, I have no particular desire for Greece to leave the Euro zone, only to have a healthy economy.

[supporttheunderdog]

Here's an interesting commentary by Dr Venetis - a specialist in refugee and migration studies at the Simon Fraser University, Vancouver.

~~~~~

Migration and the stance of Brussels toward Greece

In recent months the sharp intensification of illegal immigration from Turkey, which has seen refugees and migrants heading through the Balkans and the EU via the maritime Greek-Turkish border, along with the already acute situation in the waters between Italy and Libya, has fully revealed the political vacuum characterizing European Union member-states' relations in terms of planning and cooperation. This gap has been expressed mainly by the negligence of Brussels in recent months to take adequate and coordinated action in guarding its external borders. It still has not been addressed effectively.

The result of this neglect by Greece's EU partners was the dangerous exposure of a country in bankruptcy, fighting a colossal immigration problem, which is not national but European. At the same time Greece's exposure was also geopolitical as the issue of migration in the Aegean touches upon Greek-Turkish tensions due to unjustified Turkish demands in the region.

Given the circumstances, has Greece pursued a pragmatic policy in the context of human rights, welcoming immigrants and proceeding to their identification. At the same time, the Greek population has demonstrated a high level of humanity of European standards, a level which exceeded that of other European states with better fiscal indicators.

Unfortunately the constructive Greek attitude has not been sufficiently acknowledged by the EU. It was instead acknowledged only in some cases by international actors, intellectuals and artists. As if that were not enough, a number of conniving statements have been made by EU officials and leaders of Central European and Balkan countries on Athens's allegedly inadequate guarding of the Greek borders. Then the abolition of Schengen ensued with barriers raised by the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM), Hungary, Denmark, Sweden and others destroying the notion of European solidarity. However, they cannot and must not succeed.

The anti-Greece Austrian policy in the Balkans overlooks the fragile geopolitical reality in the Aegean and demands actions that are not feasible. It is perhaps the lack of experience of the young Austrian foreign minister that defines the lack of realism in Austrian foreign policy toward Greece. Such an approach by Vienna is unfortunate, creating a negative Greek public view toward Austria and undermining bilateral relations.

EU officials' recent statements about the prospect of the formal replacement of the Dublin III Regulation could be a hopeful sign of European solidarity toward Greece and Italy, since the primary responsibility for the treatment of illegal immigrants is undertaken by the country-destinations of the developed European north and not the transit countries of the economically problematic south.

If Europe does not share the Greek perspective in the Aegean, then NATO will fill the gap created by the lack of EU political unity and solidarity in the Aegean. The recent announcement of NATO involvement needs to address first the link between immigration and Greek-Turkish relations, and especially the reasons that Athens does not want indirect condominium at sea, i.e. any change in the geopolitical balance in the region. If Europe misses the opportunity to express genuine solidarity with Greece, then a new picture will be formed in the region, a picture of chaos and instability not only in Greece but throughout the Balkans. Such a scenario could be averted through the revision of the European strategy on safeguarding the EU's external borders. For Athens, it's time to move toward new creative paths of geopolitical contemplation in the Mediterranean context, including the formation of a substantial Greek-Italian alliance within the context of the EU.

Ekathimerini.com

Yes an interersting commentary ( a discussion document? ) representing the views of the writer, no more. About as valid as anything other think piece in the commercial media.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Here's an interesting commentary by Dr Venetis - a specialist in refugee and migration studies at the Simon Fraser University, Vancouver.

Yes an interersting commentary ( a discussion document? ) representing the views of the writer, no more. About as valid as anything other think piece in the commercial media.

No, it's not a discussion document: it's a commentary, as I stated. Still confused after your roller-coaster ride through the (b)annals of the EU, I see!

And most thinking people would view the comments of a leading academic a little more favorably than they would those of some hack from 'The Daily Fail' that you worship.

Anyway, let's see if you, Wormwood, can manage to answer what your demonic uncle Screwtape failed to address in his hurry to disappear when faced with reason ...

Question:
What purpose would it serve to 'expel' Greece or 'sanction' Greece?

Discuss ..... or comment!

[erolz66]

Question:
What purpose would it serve to 'expel' Greece or 'sanction' Greece?

Discuss ..... or comment!

On and on you go with the charade that there could be any point in rational discussion with you. As if it had not been shown beyond any possible doubt that you can and do and will just blatantly distort actual factual reality when it suits , repeatedly, and then deny that you have done so when it shown you have done so, so plainly and so clearly.

What evaluation report did the EU Council use when adopting the recommendations and setting the three month deadline as detailed here ?

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press ... of-greece/

Why can you not answer this simple question ? The reason why you can not and will not answer it is because you have made repeated post after post (complete with 'shouting' and insults and all the rest) stating or implying the blatant untruth, distortion of plain factual reality, of "Eighth biannual report on the functioning of the Schengen area"

Do you DENY that you have made such repeated posts claiming that the 'relevant report', the 'one used to make decision', the one that the press releases were about was the "Eighth biannual report on the functioning of the Schengen area" ? Yes or no ?

[GreekIslandGirl]

Question:
What purpose would it serve to 'expel' Greece or 'sanction' Greece?

Discuss ..... or comment!

On and on you go with the charade that there could be any point in rational discussion with you.

No point you crawling back just to evade the question.

And kindly stop digging up your trashed sources and confusions over documents now long, long archived having proved impotent.

[erolz66]

No point you crawling back just to evade the question.

And kindly stop digging up your trashed sources and confusions over documents now long, long archived having proved impotent.

There is only one person doing all they can to "evade the question."

It is just a plain evident fact that you repeatedly and relentlessly said and made out that the press releases were about the "Eighth biannual report on the functioning of the Schengen area". That this document was the 'one under discussion', the 'relevant one', the one that 'decisions' would be based on.

here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here

That you systematically distorted plain and evident truth to suit you own agenda is so clearly and evidently shown just by looking at what you said in the links given above (over and over, screaming and with all the ususal insults and the rest) and then looking at the truth as plainly and clearly laid out in the "trash source" of the Council of the European Union own press releases on their own website here http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press ... of-greece/

That you just plough on and on and on as if none of this REALITY even exits or means anything or matters at all, shows that when I claim that for you truth and reality are simply irrelevant to you in the face of you agenda's needs, such claims by me are not just words but are in fact backed up by clear documented hard evidence, and is further shown by your own reaction here and now when this is all laid out for you.

[supporttheunderdog]

I think Tusk made a valid point, so far as it went, as Suspending Greece from Schengen will not solve the underlying problems of illigeal migrants... Only make it more difficult as everyone will have to pass through border controls to leave Greece but then the steps in hand in Greece will not and were never intended to do to stop migration but to ensure that those entering were properly recorded and processed. That is why in my view his remarks are only of partial relevence to the issue about the seperate need for proper border controls and potential measures to remedy the deficiencies identified, or if neccassary to move the controls to the other national borders.

[repulsewarrior]

...news.

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press ... ruary+2016)

[repulsewarrior]

...and for the record, talking borders.

http://www.euronews.com/2016/02/20/huma ... and-italy/

...a failure of EU policy is much to blame.

[GreekIslandGirl]

The shame that Europe faces when some of their members are proving to be barbarians:

“The Visegrád countries have not only not accepted even one refugee; they have not sent even a blanket for a refugee,” he added, referring to the Czech Republic, Poland, Hungary and Slovakia. “Or a policeman to reinforce [EU border agency] Frontex.”

Guardian