Cyprus-Forum.com

[B25]

Both of you, erolz and stud, have been screaming 'sanctions' and 'expulsion' despite the evaluations recommending more help for Greece.

Where are the sanctions?

When is the expulsion?

All we see are forces being set in motion to do their bit for the external border too!

All we see are the countries that failed to deliver on picking up their share of migrants being scolded (and that is NOT Greece!).

Be off with your propaganda!

Kori, their arguments are nowt to do with Greece expulsions / sanctions, but everything to do with proving you wrong. They both have a fixation on you, and they are shooting the messenger of the message.

Keep giving them hell, as their anti Greek Bias shows through more and more.

[erolz66]

Both of you, erolz and stud, have been screaming 'sanctions' and 'expulsion' despite the evaluations recommending more help for Greece.

I stated, in perfectly plain normal text, that. "the EU Commission is criticising and threatening sanctions against Greece." I accepted more than once that you can argue what does or does not constitute a threat.

You, amongst many other things, in the course of this argument, just blatantly stated and repeated endlessly, frequently in bold oversized text, things that just were not and are not true. Not things that were matters of opinion, or viewpoint or perspective - but things that were just plain factual reality. The clearest of these screamed repeated untruths of yours is your assertion that the press release here was about an evaluation report that

evaluates some of the Schengen countries including Greece

and that

The report under discussion is .. The Eighth bi-annual report on the functioning of the Schengen area

and that

The actual Schengen Evaluation Report..It is a report on several countries

and is

more critical of Sweden and others!

and that

the evaluation it will be based on does NOT criticise Greece

and that

the evaluation report that will lead to decisions doesn't even criticize Greece

and is

In fact the 8th biannual evaluation that this is all based on

You have relentlessly repeated this same single blatant and obvious distortion of actual factual reality at least 15 times, almost always 'screaming' (using bold oversized text) and almost always also insulting and calling liar those who have pointed out your blatant distortion. You did this here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here

That you have repeated this same single and blatant distortion of factual reality relentlessly over and over is indisputable. The links and quotes where you do it are all there for anyone to see.

This repeated claim that the 'relevant report', the report 'this is all based on', the report that 'will lead to decisions' is the one titled "Eighth biannual report on the functioning of the Schengen area", one that evaluates all Schengen members, one that is more critical of Sweden than Greece, is not true. That this is not true is so obvious and clear and beyond any possible doubt. It is obvious and clear beyond any possible doubt from the first EU Commission press release here and from the second EU Commission Press Release AND from the EU Council press release here

This is what you do GiG. This is what you have always done. You can and will and do systematically, distort and or ignore absolute objective truth and reality when ever doing so suits your agenda. The above is a text book undeniable example of this.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Both of you, erolz and stud, have been screaming 'sanctions' and 'expulsion' despite the evaluations recommending more help for Greece.

I stated, in perfectly plain normal text, that. "the EU Commission is criticising and threatening sanctions against Greece." I accepted more than once that you can argue what does or does not constitute a threat.

Finding where the EU Commission actually made such a threat would have been a start.

Instead, you chose to jump from document to document trying to piece together something, anything to support your lying claims. Your further nonsense on "expulsion" cobbled together from media headlines was a joke!

It hasn't happened!

What purpose would it serve to 'expel' Greece or 'sanction' Greece? To please you?

[erolz66]

You can continue to ignore your own systematic, relentless and blatant distortion of plain reality, as shown above, as if it just does not exist at all. Doing so does not change the fact that the above is a clear and simple text book example of how you can and will and do, systematically, distort and or ignore absolute objective truth and reality when ever doing so suits your agenda.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Go on, explain to me:

What purpose would it serve to 'expel' Greece or 'sanction' Greece?

Would it stem the flow of migrants from Turkey?

Would it end the war in Syria?

No! So why are you going on and on about your relentless mythical "threats"?

As Tusk said - "What we must do is to improve the protection of our external borders, not least here in Greece."

[GreekIslandGirl]

Go on, explain to me:

What purpose would it serve to 'expel' Greece or 'sanction' Greece?

I see erolz is now rendered speechless!

This is what Tusk has to say to you:

"Let me be clear. Excluding Greece from Schengen solves none of our problems." "What we must do is improve the protection of our external borders, not least here in Greece. This requires more Greek effort, but it also requires more support from EU partners."

[erolz66]

As I have already said you can and will simply ignore the fact - as clearly shown - that you systematically and repeatedly and blatantly and shamelessly distorted absolute factual reality in regards to what evaluation report the press releases were about and was used by the EU Council to make their recommendations and set a three month deadline for these to be implemented, to suit your agenda. This is what you do, this is what you have always done.

That, having done this and it having been so clearly shown that you did this, you just plough on and on and on as if you did not, does not change the FACT that this is what you have done and clearly been shown to have done.

[GreekIslandGirl]

I have done nothing of the sort.

You on the other hand have lied about what the EU supposedly threatened and have tangled yourself in a web of deceit with confusions over various documents and discussions.

The truth of the matter is in the statements I have posted.

You choose to ignore the reality on the ground of the greater assistance Greece is being given to manage the external borders. Not only from FRONTEX but also NATO.

You choose to ignore the reality that the EU does NOT want to nor needs to sanction or expel Greece.

You cannot stomach the reality of what Tusk is saying or what is ACTUALLY happening.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Here's an interesting commentary by Dr Venetis - a specialist in refugee and migration studies at the Simon Fraser University, Vancouver.

~~~~~

Migration and the stance of Brussels toward Greece

In recent months the sharp intensification of illegal immigration from Turkey, which has seen refugees and migrants heading through the Balkans and the EU via the maritime Greek-Turkish border, along with the already acute situation in the waters between Italy and Libya, has fully revealed the political vacuum characterizing European Union member-states' relations in terms of planning and cooperation. This gap has been expressed mainly by the negligence of Brussels in recent months to take adequate and coordinated action in guarding its external borders. It still has not been addressed effectively.

The result of this neglect by Greece's EU partners was the dangerous exposure of a country in bankruptcy, fighting a colossal immigration problem, which is not national but European. At the same time Greece's exposure was also geopolitical as the issue of migration in the Aegean touches upon Greek-Turkish tensions due to unjustified Turkish demands in the region.

Given the circumstances, has Greece pursued a pragmatic policy in the context of human rights, welcoming immigrants and proceeding to their identification. At the same time, the Greek population has demonstrated a high level of humanity of European standards, a level which exceeded that of other European states with better fiscal indicators.

Unfortunately the constructive Greek attitude has not been sufficiently acknowledged by the EU. It was instead acknowledged only in some cases by international actors, intellectuals and artists. As if that were not enough, a number of conniving statements have been made by EU officials and leaders of Central European and Balkan countries on Athens's allegedly inadequate guarding of the Greek borders. Then the abolition of Schengen ensued with barriers raised by the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM), Hungary, Denmark, Sweden and others destroying the notion of European solidarity. However, they cannot and must not succeed.

The anti-Greece Austrian policy in the Balkans overlooks the fragile geopolitical reality in the Aegean and demands actions that are not feasible. It is perhaps the lack of experience of the young Austrian foreign minister that defines the lack of realism in Austrian foreign policy toward Greece. Such an approach by Vienna is unfortunate, creating a negative Greek public view toward Austria and undermining bilateral relations.

EU officials' recent statements about the prospect of the formal replacement of the Dublin III Regulation could be a hopeful sign of European solidarity toward Greece and Italy, since the primary responsibility for the treatment of illegal immigrants is undertaken by the country-destinations of the developed European north and not the transit countries of the economically problematic south.

If Europe does not share the Greek perspective in the Aegean, then NATO will fill the gap created by the lack of EU political unity and solidarity in the Aegean. The recent announcement of NATO involvement needs to address first the link between immigration and Greek-Turkish relations, and especially the reasons that Athens does not want indirect condominium at sea, i.e. any change in the geopolitical balance in the region. If Europe misses the opportunity to express genuine solidarity with Greece, then a new picture will be formed in the region, a picture of chaos and instability not only in Greece but throughout the Balkans. Such a scenario could be averted through the revision of the European strategy on safeguarding the EU's external borders. For Athens, it's time to move toward new creative paths of geopolitical contemplation in the Mediterranean context, including the formation of a substantial Greek-Italian alliance within the context of the EU.

Ekathimerini.com

[erolz66]

I have done nothing of the sort.

Yes you have and I have shown that you have.

What evaluation report did the EU Council use when adopting the recommendations and setting the three month deadline as detailed here ?

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press ... of-greece/

It really is a very simple question.

Was it , as you stated or implied here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here

the "Eighth biannual report on the functioning of the Schengen area" or was it , as all three press releases explicitly state the "schengen evaluation report on Greece" ?

The answer is plainly and irrefutably obvious, as a matter of fact, not opinion , not perspective but plain fact. Yet you consistently and repeatedly claimed otherwise - as I have shown you did, beyond any possible or reasonable doubt.

This is why it is impossible to have a rational reasoned debate with you. You will just make assertions about matters of fact (not opinion, not perspective) that are simply and blatantly not true and will just keep doing so over and over as you have done in this example. When it is shown beyond all possible doubt that this is what you have done you will just simply declare

I have done nothing of the sort.

This is what you do. This is what you have always done here.