Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

He works (and probably has shares) in the big financial firms man something like Deloitte,KPMG etc it's part of the services they provide to their clients to appoint one of their best Chartered Accountants like DT to sit in their board meetings.
Didn't you figure out what "us" meant when he said "they proposed us to invest "

[Paphitis]

C'mon DT, the evidence please.

You also said that the Australian CEO of Cobalt had his offices raided in Russia. Are you really sure? Why would they have an office in Russia. They are not that silly.

Did he have an office in Russia now or did he have a Russian puppet. I seriously doubt he would be working out of Russia. Probably not even in Cyprus. China maybe or from Sydney but not Russia mate.

You must have some evidence. You said his offices got raided. This is news I have not seen. Please enlighten us please.

What happens DT, is they set up a company and then they move aside and appoint a Russian CEO. That is what they do.

[Paphitis]

He works (and probably has shares) in the big financial firms man something like Deloitte,KPMG etc it's part of the services they provide to their clients to appoint one of their best Chartered Accountants like DT to sit in their board meetings.
Didn't you figure out what "us" meant when he said "they proposed us to invest "

Yeh I can accept that. KPMG and Deloitte could be bought in as financial consultants but I have a bit of a problem with the claim of setting up an Aviation business. I want DT to tell us who it was that set up the AOC. This isn't an accounting or financial function. Having an Accountant or employing a Lawyer isn't the same thing as "setting up an airline"

AOCs are actually extremely difficult to set up. Basically, an enterprise needs to table all its training procedures, SOPs, Ops manuals, and develop processes that tick off on every Civil Aviation Order and Regulation of the host nation. It isn't an easy thing to do. And even though we are talking about Cyprus, it would still have a carbon copy regulatory system from the International Civil Aviation Organization.

[RichardB]

Papers say Chinese investors

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45897567

And you think that the worldwide media knows more than Paphites?

That's the fatal error everyone here makes thinking that Paphitis will finally shut up in the face of overwhelming credible evidence but no!

Guess you're right ...again

I don't appreciate the sarcasm.

DT said he was responsible setting Cobalt up. Setting up an Airline isn't as simple as setting up a grocery store, or fast food joint.

It took Cobalt about 6 months to get an AOC and it would have cost them a couple of million dollars in consultant fees. The people that did set it up had years of experience setting up Airline Businesses in Russia, China, and Australia and were renowned Airline Executives of some good repute with some of the best Airlines in the world. The only way Cobalt would succeed is if they managed to get Cobalt to be a subsidiary of a much larger network and be the Middle Eastern feeder airline to one of their Chinese interests.

I know how the business started and it wasn't the Chinese that founded Cobalt. A group of Aussies came up with the idea of moving into the Cyprus market after the Cyprus Airways collapse thinking they could fill the gap but they didn't do their homework very well. But they got the company flying with an AOC. And they sold it off.

FFS Paphitis wind yet neck in..
DT never said he was responsible for setting up Cobalt. He said he was on the board to secure funding. Something quite normal in business. Even I when setting up restaurants I employed a specialist to secure funding as they know the best places to look and get the best possible rates this is normal business practice.

You said that the backers were a company called Glencore . A 5 minute search on the internet proved you wrong and that the main investors were Chinese. ( this has in fact now been reported in many newspapers) but oh no you know better.

Also of course a CEO Can be fired

No wonder people are taking the piss.

And GR was right even in the face of overwhelming evidence you will never admit you were wrong

[Paphitis]

FFS Paphitis wind yet neck in..
DT never said he was responsible for setting up Cobalt. He said he was on the board to secure funding. Something quite normal in business. Even I when setting up restaurants I employed a specialist to secure funding as they know the best places to look and get the best possible rates this is normal business practice.

You said that the backers were a company called Glencore . A 5 minute search on the internet proved you wrong and that the main investors were Chinese. ( this has in fact now been reported in many newspapers) but oh no you know better.

Also of course a CEO Can be fired

No wonder people are taking the piss.

And GR was right even in the face of overwhelming evidence you will never admit you were wrong

No I admit I was wrong. The company was owned by Chinese Interests when it went down.

But that wasn't the case in the beginning. I suggest you keep doing some internet searches.

The Chinese did not form Cobalt or own it from day 1.

Here you go. One of the principal founders of Cobalt was a chap by the name of Michael Hayden. A British Airways and QANTAS executive.

https://cyprus-mail.com/2015/12/24/72116/

These guys were involved in over 20 airline start ups world wide. In other words, Cobalt wasn't their first.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... or-cyprus/

Other people involved were Andrew Pine. Another Australian who was involved with Cathay Pacific and Dragonair.

And Paul Kelly who was the first CEO of Cobalt who was also the CEO of Qatar Airways owned Saudi Subsidiary Jazeera Airlines and Dobrolet. This is the guy DT has claimed got sacked and had his Russian Office raided.

https://www.cyprusprofile.com/en/articl ... ed-airline

[Pyrpolizer]

Company was 9 months from breakeven.

I doubt that DT.
Not because of the risk of losing an Engine and the like.The planes were all rented after all, but because of the following:

The company started last July.
Obviously it was operating at a loss up until say end of March(that's 10 months)
The only possibility to break even in 9 months from today (up until next June) would be that in the meantime it started recovering during the summer high season from April to date (that's another 6 months).
But if it started recovering then the company should have no financial problems for the least 3 months or so!
This doesn't seem to be true though. In fact CY Govnt officials said the company was on the downhill all along and instead of making profits during the summer high season it was actually accelerating towards total bankruptcy

[Paphitis]

Company was 9 months from breakeven.

I doubt that DT.
Not because of the risk of losing an Engine and the like.The planes were all rented after all, but because of the following:

The company started last July.
Obviously it was operating at a loss up until say end of March(that's 10 months)
The only possibility to break even in 9 months from today (up until next June) would be that in the meantime it started recovering during the summer high season from April to date (that's another 6 months).
But if it started recovering then the company should have no financial problems for the least 3 months or so!
This doesn't seem to be true though. In fact CY Govnt officials said the company was on the downhill all along and instead of making profits during the summer high season it was actually accelerating towards total bankruptcy

The leases were Dry leases. therefore, Cobalt is responsible for all maintenance, and repairs. Once the aircraft is under your AOC, it is yours. Maintenance and all repairs are the airline's liability as well. You break an engine, you fix it.

Wet Leases is where the Leasee is responsible. Under these arrangements, it is the leasee that operates the aircraft with their crew.

[RichardB]

FFS Paphitis wind yet neck in..
DT never said he was responsible for setting up Cobalt. He said he was on the board to secure funding. Something quite normal in business. Even I when setting up restaurants I employed a specialist to secure funding as they know the best places to look and get the best possible rates this is normal business practice.

You said that the backers were a company called Glencore . A 5 minute search on the internet proved you wrong and that the main investors were Chinese. ( this has in fact now been reported in many newspapers) but oh no you know better.

Also of course a CEO Can be fired

No wonder people are taking the piss.

And GR was right even in the face of overwhelming evidence you will never admit you were wrong

No I admit I was wrong. The company was owned by Chinese Interests when it went down.

But that wasn't the case in the beginning. I suggest you keep doing some internet searches.

The Chinese did not form Cobalt or own it from day 1.

Here you go. One of the principal founders of Cobalt was a chap by the name of Michael Hayden. A British Airways and QANTAS executive.

https://cyprus-mail.com/2015/12/24/72116/

These guys were involved in over 20 airline start ups world wide. In other words, Cobalt wasn't their first.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... or-cyprus/

Other people involved were Andrew Pine. Another Australian who was involved with Cathay Pacific and Dragonair.

And Paul Kelly who was the first CEO of Cobalt who was also the CEO of Qatar Airways owned Saudi Subsidiary Jazeera Airlines and Dobrolet. This is the guy DT has claimed got sacked and had his Russian Office raided.

https://www.cyprusprofile.com/en/articl ... ed-airline

Why are you bringing up people who were there in the beginning?
Apart from you no one has brought up who was there "at the begining"
It was about who the investors were at the end.

Also please show me where DT said he was responsible for setting up Cobalt as I can't seem to find it.

A link would also be appreciated to "legislation"? Which decrees a CEO cannot be fired.

[Paphitis]

And another executive was a chap by the name of Andrew Pattison.

https://cyprustraveller.com/cobalt-air- ... perations/

But these guys don't seem to be Chinese to me.

Sure they have had no connection to Cobalt now but that wasn't the case when the business was first established.

I am still waiting for evidence over their sackings.

All these Airline executives apparently were sacked according to DT.

[Paphitis]

FFS Paphitis wind yet neck in..
DT never said he was responsible for setting up Cobalt. He said he was on the board to secure funding. Something quite normal in business. Even I when setting up restaurants I employed a specialist to secure funding as they know the best places to look and get the best possible rates this is normal business practice.

You said that the backers were a company called Glencore . A 5 minute search on the internet proved you wrong and that the main investors were Chinese. ( this has in fact now been reported in many newspapers) but oh no you know better.

Also of course a CEO Can be fired

No wonder people are taking the piss.

And GR was right even in the face of overwhelming evidence you will never admit you were wrong

No I admit I was wrong. The company was owned by Chinese Interests when it went down.

But that wasn't the case in the beginning. I suggest you keep doing some internet searches.

The Chinese did not form Cobalt or own it from day 1.

Here you go. One of the principal founders of Cobalt was a chap by the name of Michael Hayden. A British Airways and QANTAS executive.

https://cyprus-mail.com/2015/12/24/72116/

These guys were involved in over 20 airline start ups world wide. In other words, Cobalt wasn't their first.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... or-cyprus/

Other people involved were Andrew Pine. Another Australian who was involved with Cathay Pacific and Dragonair.

And Paul Kelly who was the first CEO of Cobalt who was also the CEO of Qatar Airways owned Saudi Subsidiary Jazeera Airlines and Dobrolet. This is the guy DT has claimed got sacked and had his Russian Office raided.

https://www.cyprusprofile.com/en/articl ... ed-airline

Why are you bringing up people who were there in the beginning?
Apart from you no one has brought up who was there "at the begining"
It was about who the investors were at the end.

Also please show me where DT said he was responsible for setting up Cobalt as I can't seem to find it.

A link would also be appreciated to "legislation"? Which decrees a CEO cannot be fired.

he said it here:

Paphitis ffs!...stop bullshitting!! AP was fired. I served on their fucking board for 6 months I know!

And the investors were Chinese. Full stop.

AP must be Andrew Pyne. He wasn't even the CEO. The CEO was Peter Kelly not Andrew Pyne.

Yet it was Andrew Pyne that was somehow sacked when he wasn't even an employee. This is what DT said.

I am asking for evidence. I don't care whether you think CEO's can be sacked. Fact is, the main players and backers can't be sacked unless they had a rift between themselves which doesn't seem to be the case.

https://www.cyprusprofile.com/en/articl ... ed-airline

Surely it aint that difficult. If people are going to make the claim of CEO sackings and Russian Office raids, they can also provide the evidence.

I am not disputing that Cobalt is Chinese owned. Fair play. It is owned by a Chinese company and was owned by them for quite some time. But for the first few months, it was Australian owned before they all bailed out. It was these Australians that founded Cobalt and got an AOC and they flogged the company off.

What they did is set up a business, got an AOC, leased 2 A320 aircraft and sold the company in the nick of time and fucked off into the sunset. They probably thought they lost the plot and realised Cyprus is not the place to conduct this kind of business.