Cyprus-Forum.com

[Sotos]

And just to be clear here is how that partnership between TCs and Turkey works. Without such partnership and under fair condition the TCs would get 18% share and the GCs 78% share of everything... power, land, gas revenue etc. Turkey as a foreign country would get 0. But with the partnership Turkey can get 40% instead of 0% and then the remaining 60% is split 50%/50% between GCs and TCs... which means that the TCs get 30% instead of 18%, and the GCs get 30% instead of 78%. So both TCs and Turkey win on our expense. And if Turkey can not get a share on something directly, then TCs would have to pay back by other means. For example say TCs get 30% of land as their own federal state instead of 18% or even 0% that they would get without Turkey. But then when it comes the time to share the natural gas, it is time for TCs to pay back. So the TCs will insist that all our gas should go with pipelines to Turkey at a very cheap price... so Turkey gets 80% of the profits, TCs get 10% and GCs get 10%.

[Nikitas]

"TCs provide the excuse and Turkey provides the power. "

Very well said. When we get an open discussion in their parliament about their Cyprus policy, as we had in Greece in the 90s, and if in that discussion they openly describe their hitherto policy and future changes, then we have no excuse to fool ourselves that they have changed their long term goals. From what we see and hear from their officials their long term policy is to control the island and ultimately take over the whole of it. That is what I gather from the importation of colonists.

In the Greek parliamentary discussion former government officials, like Mitsotakis the elder, stated that the policy of the 60s had been union. That the Greek division stationed in Cyprus had as its primary mission the control of the GCs to enforce a possible union, and this has been proven by the Cypriot parliament's Cyprus file investigation. Given the present state of affairs in Turkey we are unlikely to ever see an opening of the Turkish files on the issue or witness a change of policy with commitments from all political parties.

Therefore we must prepare for the continuation of what we have had till now despite a settlement. Perhaps in a more insipid form, within the EU framework, but the same none the less. Look for small bits of evidence, like an insistence that all Cypriot parliamentary reps should vote along one line decided by the federal government in Nicosia where there will be "equality" of the two communities at that decision level.

As for being a partitionist, I am not. But failing to convince the other side of the benefits of being a small and truly independent nation, among the other choices are perpetual suzerainty or double union, and they are not appealing.

[Nikitas]

An aside about the gas revenues, if and when they come. You see now why I had proposed a per capita direct share to each citizen. Nothing works better to convince people than cash in hand. And after each citizen gets his share in cash, then there can be schemes in place to encourage them to invest, tax free, or to spend their money as they please, which again would revert to the state via taxes.

But our politicians cannot see past their noses in this issue, to take lessons from Norway or Kuwait. They want to create "structures" that will benefit them in many and manifold ways and in that scene Turkey will get the lions share.

Akinci so far has not come up with anything novel on the gas issue. And do not forget that the gas issue brings in a bigger issue of resource sharing which in the future might extend to mining on land, not just in the EEZ, perhaps even water resources which will give the water pipeline (and through it Turkey) a strange and unforeseen status.

[repulsewarrior]

...it is Akinci's to win, with 60% of the vote counted he has the lead by 60%.

[Pyrpolizer]

Basically both you and Nikitas are partitionists. You are just the other side of Viewpoint.

The other side of a partitionist would be a "unitarist"... somebody who accepts only a solution where Cyprus is a unitary state. BBF is something between partition and a unitary state... depending on the exact arrangement BBF can be 10% partition or 90% partition. But you have to remember that partition is not the worst possible outcome ... Turkey taking control of the whole Cyprus is the worst possible outcome. And a bad solution can lead to that... and is this what Nikitas wants to ensure that it will not happen.

In hundreds of occasions I have expressed my trust to the people of Cyprus both Kypreoi and Kibrislis in living together and building a common future. You are just BOTH seeing ghosts.

Tell me when the TCs acted independently of Turkey. They are partners in the crime against Cyprus. TCs provide the excuse and Turkey provides the power. That is how it has always been... from the time that Turkey showed an interest in the TCs before the 50s until today. This will not change with any solution... you are very naive if you believe that it will.

1)Taking it for granted that the solution will be bad, and for this reason asking for the impossible to be included in that agreement/solution, is the most absurd thing I ever heard.

2)Taking this over-simplistic and one sided approach and on top of it drawing over simplistic conclusions actually makes you totally ignorant or totally naive here. Choose. I am not going to go through the whole Cyprus problem just for proving you wrong, it's blatantly obvious you are one sided and over simplistic.

In you other post you even assumed the solution will be such that Turkey will control the TCs. Why don't you go ask them yes THEM not me what one of their 3 MAIN goals are in a solution. Never you heard it is to get rid of Turkey? Do you think they like to be controlled? For the moment they have no other option... in a new state they would have the option to tell assiktir to Turkey like ourselves can say assiktir to anyone who might want to benefit on our loss.
You may assume that Turkey will never endorse to such a solution-in which she will not have direct control over the TC fed state.,and you are free to make these assumptions.
At the same time I am also free to assume that she will endorse because she would have a friendly (NOT CONTROLLED) Fed State ,by her side.

[Nikitas]

Well he won, we now are going through another phase.

I hear there are many cherries, so hold a small basket. But I wont be a schmuck, even the small basket will be OK, provided it happens soon. The next few days will tell.

[Lordo]

today is a decision day. this decision is going to be made by anastasiades. either he will choose to negotiate or stall. the future of cyprus depends on his decision.

if he chooses to stall we are all in the shit together. it is time for our gc friends to showed some metal and make their voice heard loud and clear so the politicians can hear.

[B25]

Basically both you and Nikitas are partitionists. You are just the other side of Viewpoint.

The other side of a partitionist would be a "unitarist"... somebody who accepts only a solution where Cyprus is a unitary state. BBF is something between partition and a unitary state... depending on the exact arrangement BBF can be 10% partition or 90% partition. But you have to remember that partition is not the worst possible outcome ... Turkey taking control of the whole Cyprus is the worst possible outcome. And a bad solution can lead to that... and is this what Nikitas wants to ensure that it will not happen.

In hundreds of occasions I have expressed my trust to the people of Cyprus both Kypreoi and Kibrislis in living together and building a common future. You are just BOTH seeing ghosts.

Tell me when the TCs acted independently of Turkey. They are partners in the crime against Cyprus. TCs provide the excuse and Turkey provides the power. That is how it has always been... from the time that Turkey showed an interest in the TCs before the 50s until today. This will not change with any solution... you are very naive if you believe that it will.

1)Taking it for granted that the solution will be bad, and for this reason asking for the impossible to be included in that agreement/solution, is the most absurd thing I ever heard.

2)Taking this over-simplistic and one sided approach and on top of it drawing over simplistic conclusions actually makes you totally ignorant or totally naive here. Choose. I am not going to go through the whole Cyprus problem just for proving you wrong, it's blatantly obvious you are one sided and over simplistic.

In you other post you even assumed the solution will be such that Turkey will control the TCs. Why don't you go ask them yes THEM not me what one of their 3 MAIN goals are in a solution. Never you heard it is to get rid of Turkey? Do you think they like to be controlled? For the moment they have no other option... in a new state they would have the option to tell assiktir to Turkey like ourselves can say assiktir to anyone who might want to benefit on our loss.
You may assume that Turkey will never endorse to such a solution-in which she will not have direct control over the TC fed state.,and you are free to make these assumptions.
At the same time I am also free to assume that she will endorse because she would have a friendly (NOT CONTROLLED) Fed State ,by her side.

Well, Well, Well, finally the mask comes off!

[B25]

today is a decision day. this decision is going to be made by anastasiades. either he will choose to negotiate or stall. the future of cyprus depends on his decision.

if he chooses to stall we are all in the shit together. it is time for our gc friends to showed some metal and make their voice heard loud and clear so the politicians can hear.

Rubbish, it is up to Turkey to behave. We will not talk under duress. Like I said, Turkey pulls the strings. I'll give Akinci a few days to get labotomised by Turkey and soon he will be speaking their language.

[Lordo]

you no longer have eroglu to hide your intransigence my friend. be prepared to be stripped naked of your intransigence.