Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

Our leadership, haha pull the otherone. Oulli poulimeni yia ton lemon tous.

Im with Sotos on this one, anything resembling the Ankara Plan is a no no.

Oh and in case you haven't realised we already have a pseudo pertition. Let them have 18%, and they can do what the hell they want with it.

Why don't you go ask them and tell us what they said?

[B25]

Our leadership, haha pull the otherone. Oulli poulimeni yia ton lemon tous.

Im with Sotos on this one, anything resembling the Ankara Plan is a no no.

Oh and in case you haven't realised we already have a pseudo pertition. Let them have 18%, and they can do what the hell they want with it.

Why don't you go ask them and tell us what they said?

No need they told us enough times its 37% and that we should FO. Does that please you?

[Sotos]

I voted no for the Anan Plan. But I know damn well I cannot vote "No" again.
Gas is the only thing that might save us....

Why you can not vote No again? Any plan that they present to us should be vastly better if they expect the majority to vote for it. But if they bring more of the same then voting No will be again the only real choice.

Because this time the plan will be agreed by our leadership. And voting no is like voting for partition/ recognition of the occupied. You don't want to know what this would mean....

Sorry but that is nonsense. The same nonsense that was said before we rejected the Annan plan. In fact we didn't even have to negotiate with them. There are several other pseudo-states like them and none of them got recognized. Russia and China (which has Taiwan) will never vote for the recognition of the pseudo-state no matter what. And the Americans and the British will not recognize them either because then we can create a ton of problems to the operation of their bases and we will give bases to the Russians and the Chinese right next to theirs. They will have nothing to gain from recognizing the pseudo-state so they will not. And why would our leadership agree to something similar to the Annan plan when we rejected that already? Any "leader" that does such thing would obviously be a traitor. Last time they had the excuse that they didn't know what people wanted. Now they can't have this excuse. But for the sake of argument lets say the pseudo-state gets recognized. In what way would that be worst than something like Annan plan for the majority of Cypriots?

One step at a time! who said our leadership will agree to something similar to the Anan plan? That would be very unlikely.
But don't expect miracles. By the minute we agreed to BBF with some territorial adjustments we have already given more than what we will
take without even knowing the exact percentages. Next: we are in the EU. people themselves did not commit any crime by being settlers. Like it or not as per EU aquis they have rights. No matter what we do a certain number will stay. One more step in having to give more than what we will take. The list could go endlessly. If you take the property issue: You cannot throw anyone out of what according to human rights it's now his "home". You have to allow him a logical time to relocate,or pay rent or whatever. I don't expect these issues to be left to the individuals. Most probably there will be a procedure in the plan. In a nutshell absolutely no-one will be able to return during the first year including Varoshiotes (these for other reasons). To this point we have given everything and got nothing!
Let aside hundreds of other issues...
if we go by this logic there is no way anyone should have reasons to vote yes.
Any new plan , should be better way better than the Anan plan, but let's digest it it will still be bitter.Letting ourselves decide emotionally will just make us candy asses.

The recognition issue: You are talking for the kind of recognition a country gets in the UN. It doesn't have to be like that but I will not go into the details. Basically the occupied don't need recognition, all they need is direct trade and direct flights=tourism. There are already a lot of EU countries that just need an excuse to bypass us completely -the Scandinavians being top. Do you think they will miss that chance? Do you have to actually see it happening to get convinced? And please don't underestimate the British. You think we can play games with them and give bases to the Russians LOL. Just think we play the bravados, they abandon Dhekelia and the Turkish army gets in and takes half of it. What are we going to do, just tell me? same thing we did when they took Strovilia, cry at the UN and get useless papers?

I didn't ask for a perfect solution ... the TCs having autonomy over a region in Cyprus is far from perfect. We can still have something called "BBF" but not anywhere near how the Turks want it... but it will still be a great compromise from us. Otherwise no solution is better than a bad solution. And I don't think we need to play any games. Things are simple. If the British recognize the pseudo state then we should give bases to the Russians and say that the British should leave and that Dhekelia should go to the Russians and make Russia a guarantor power of Cyprus. I would like to see the Turks taking a Russian base. This would also be a great way for Russia to expose the aggression and hypocrisy of NATO.

[Lordo]

something called bbf

gavole

[repulsewarrior]

...if it means that there is a President of the Republic, a Leader of a Greek Constituency, and Leaders of other Cypriot Constituencies, it is possible to have representation as Individuals, and as well representation as Persons.

[Pyrpolizer]

Our leadership, haha pull the otherone. Oulli poulimeni yia ton lemon tous.

Im with Sotos on this one, anything resembling the Ankara Plan is a no no.

Oh and in case you haven't realised we already have a pseudo pertition. Let them have 18%, and they can do what the hell they want with it.

Why don't you go ask them and tell us what they said?

No need they told us enough times its 37% and that we should FO. Does that please you?

I don't think they ever told us it's 37% and we should FO. However "Let them have 18%, and they can do what the hell they want with it." is only good for raising their middle finger to you. Does that please you?

[B25]

What's your point Pyro, theses cryptic messages of yours are no good.

They have 37% today, they already have their middle finger up at us. These people cannot be reasined with and any sort if so called reunification will never last and we are back to the 60s.

After all this time of sitting on there middle finger, id rather just agree to a %age so we can move on and get off their middle finger. Let Turkey burden herself with the parasites see how long it lasts. Ceeding anymore to them would be a crime against the GC people.

If you haven't seen the pacman flag on our mountain, which is their FO, btw, you are not tye person i took you for.

[Nikitas]

To vote yes this time round I need:

A clear territorial arrangement with clear easily monitored demarcation lines, not the "teats" of the Annan map. Good fences make good neighbors.

A clear indication that the TC region is the maximum territory they get, along with a clear relinquishing of claims to the rest of the ISLAND as a geographic region.

An unequivocal statement that in the event of a unilateral secession by the north the south reverts to the RoC with all the statehood characteristics it has now. Secessin means automatic allocation of the EEZ to its related land mass, ie the south gets the soutern EEZ the north the northern.

The British bases are stated by all to be on GC territory and any change in their status causes them to be incorporated in the GC region.

The interim military arrangements to be equal for both sides in terms of numbers and firepower, not like the Annan plan that gave the Turkish army a crushing advantage for the interim period.

All areas to be returned to be put under UN or other agreed international administration and the Turkish army to vacate them immediately.

As for the governance issues I do not give a stuff because in the EU they mean little, and in any case we know that there will be an Ankara engineered blockage in a very short time.

Pyro above makes a big deal of the humanitarian issues. They are a non issue. No matter what the agreement says they will try their utmost to retain the settlers. Their problem, and the agreement should not turn that situation into a problem for us, and that brings us back to the issue of territory again.

The irony is that at some point in the not too distant future there will be a situation where Cyprus will be run by GCs and mainland Turks and the TCs will be a memory kept alive in quaint migrant clubs in the UK and Australia.

I will vote against any agreement that leaves things unclear to be settled at some future point, a sure way to prepare for conflict.

[Pyrpolizer]

What's your point Pyro, theses cryptic messages of yours are no good.

They have 37% today, they already have their middle finger up at us. These people cannot be reasined with and any sort if so called reunification will never last and we are back to the 60s.

After all this time of sitting on there middle finger, id rather just agree to a %age so we can move on and get off their middle finger. Let Turkey burden herself with the parasites see how long it lasts. Ceeding anymore to them would be a crime against the GC people.

If you haven't seen the pacman flag on our mountain, which is their FO, btw, you are not tye person i took you for.

What cryptic?? I explained hundreds of times that we cannot even propose partition based on ANY percentage. I am not going to repeat it.
Basically both you and Nikitas are partitionists. You are just the other side of Viewpoint.
Good luck to you, i have nothing more to say.
In hundreds of occasions I have expressed my trust to the people of Cyprus both Kypreoi and Kibrislis in living together and building a common future. You are just BOTH seeing ghosts.

[Sotos]

Basically both you and Nikitas are partitionists. You are just the other side of Viewpoint.

The other side of a partitionist would be a "unitarist"... somebody who accepts only a solution where Cyprus is a unitary state. BBF is something between partition and a unitary state... depending on the exact arrangement BBF can be 10% partition or 90% partition. But you have to remember that partition is not the worst possible outcome ... Turkey taking control of the whole Cyprus is the worst possible outcome. And a bad solution can lead to that... and is this what Nikitas wants to ensure that it will not happen.

In hundreds of occasions I have expressed my trust to the people of Cyprus both Kypreoi and Kibrislis in living together and building a common future. You are just BOTH seeing ghosts.

Tell me when the TCs acted independently of Turkey. They are partners in the crime against Cyprus. TCs provide the excuse and Turkey provides the power. That is how it has always been... from the time that Turkey showed an interest in the TCs before the 50s until today. This will not change with any solution... you are very naive if you believe that it will.