Cyprus-Forum.com

[bill cobbett]

Yes, yes, yes ... thank you Cousin Ennasespasso, for your Imaginative Turkeeesh Logik and Areeeethmetic.

... but we're a simple lot, who think simply and generously.

... and 18% is a simple and generous figure. 18% Territory with 18% Coastline (as said above).

Let us know when you want to settle matters on that basis.

[Nikitas]

The reference to 40 per cent potential GC minority in the north at some future time is indicative of the problem hiding in this BBF business.

A federation by nature allows its citizens freedom of movement and establishment. The EU aquis allows its citizens these freedoms plus the freedom to move capital and goods.

In our case our BBF will contain provisions limiting these freedoms to accomodate the fears of the TCs and to retain the ethnic purity of the regions. So we will arrive at the ridiculous point (included in the Annan plan) of all EU citizens, EXCEPT CYPRIOT NATURAL PERSONS, having the right to own land in all parts of Cyprus. Legal persons, companies, are exempt because EU rules do not allow "looking behind the corporate veil" of publicly traded companies. Neither can anyone control the takeover of companies with large land holdings. You can guess the games that will be played.

A new category of Cypriot and Eu resident will be established with special privileges- the settlers.

These are the legalistic aspects. In real life people congregate where there is employment and income, not where politicians want to put them, and in Cyprus today that means three cities in order of importance- Limassol, Nicosia, Larnaca. One more reason to have clear territorial arrangements that will override the future appearance of any new "minority" by anyone anywhere.

[Flying Horse]

The properties that the Gcs left behind in 1974 were 5 time more in a donum-by donum basis
The value of those properties in 1974 was 20 times more than the value of the properties the Tcs have left behind. This means on the average each donum of GC land in the occupied worth 4 times more than each donum the Tcs left behind.
And on top of it the total donums they left behind was 5 times more.

Indeed correct, and you don't need to have studied the plan to obtain this information.
Simply put, there's a value pre 74 written on your title deeds. This is used to calculate today's value if you wish to do anything with it.

[Flying Horse]

So we will arrive at the ridiculous point (included in the Annan plan) of all EU citizens, EXCEPT CYPRIOT NATURAL PERSONS, having the right to own land in all parts of Cyprus. Legal persons, companies, are exempt because EU rules do not allow "looking behind the corporate veil" of publicly traded companies.

Ridiculous.
So... Let me ask clarification, would a Cypriot ( genetically speaking) born outside Cyprus be able to do so, who legally owns land already ?
If yes, then Lordo will be upset all those from the UK might come and set up residence...

[Pyrpolizer]

The reference to 40 per cent potential GC minority in the north at some future time is indicative of the problem hiding in this BBF business.

A federation by nature allows its citizens freedom of movement and establishment. The EU aquis allows its citizens these freedoms plus the freedom to move capital and goods.

In our case our BBF will contain provisions limiting these freedoms to accomodate the fears of the TCs and to retain the ethnic purity of the regions. So we will arrive at the ridiculous point (included in the Annan plan) of all EU citizens, EXCEPT CYPRIOT NATURAL PERSONS, having the right to own land in all parts of Cyprus. Legal persons, companies, are exempt because EU rules do not allow "looking behind the corporate veil" of publicly traded companies. Neither can anyone control the takeover of companies with large land holdings. You can guess the games that will be played.

A new category of Cypriot and Eu resident will be established with special privileges- the settlers.

These are the legalistic aspects. In real life people congregate where there is employment and income, not where politicians want to put them, and in Cyprus today that means three cities in order of importance- Limassol, Nicosia, Larnaca. One more reason to have clear territorial arrangements that will override the future appearance of any new "minority" by anyone anywhere.

BBF is not sustainable no matter what. What are they going to do, count the residents on a daily basis? That's why I am not personally worrying about it.

Btw notice what the Anan Plan was doing regarding the properties: Because there was no way for the TCs to ever make it to owing the majority of privately own lands in the supposed to be born TC Fed State,the Anan Plan basically robbed the properties of the GCs refugees .
From memory in case of restitution one could get only 1/3rd of his property back which at the very best would consist of a house plus 1/3rd of his other property. Question:Who would get the other 2/3rds???

[Pyrpolizer]

In any case I don't foresee any new plan going by the provisions of the Anan plan regarding the properties.Restitution rights would probably remain the same-i mean if the property is empty one gets it back immediately. However I don't think percentages (of what you get back) would ever be accepted. There would be some scheme of exchanges that individuals would either be free to exchange between themselves, or pass their properties to a committee to do it for themselves or both.In case the committee would manage an exchange then it would be upto the individuals to endorse it. In any case nobody would accept exchanges based on 1974 values, nor at today's values. Everybody would look at the projected value of their properties in say 5-10 years from solution. Experts would be called to calculate those after the situation normalizes and after prices adjust by themselves all over within the Federation.Still I don't think there is ANY WAY for the TC properties to ever balance out.
Gcs will be left with too much property ownership in the TC Fed State...
Some people would have no other option than take monetary compensation for the fact that their properties got used for public purposes.
I don't think either RoCs expropriation date neither the occupied's expropriation dates would be the criterion for monetary compensations.Most probably these monetary compensations would also be based on projected - normalized land values.

[Lordo]

The properties that the Gcs left behind in 1974 were 5 time more in a donum-by donum basis
The value of those properties in 1974 was 20 times more than the value of the properties the Tcs have left behind. This means on the average each donum of GC land in the occupied worth 4 times more than each donum the Tcs left behind.
And on top of it the total donums they left behind was 5 times more.

Indeed correct, and you don't need to have studied the plan to obtain this information.
Simply put, there's a value pre 74 written on your title deeds. This is used to calculate today's value if you wish to do anything with it.

absolutely right there and if you exchanged in 74 we would have ended up with less that 18 percent. we thank your stupidity for wasting so long to consider exchange from the bottom of our hearts and not doing it in the seventies where we would have really lost out. we thank you doubly for imposing embargoes on us and depressing our property values too. ironically the annan plan considered the values at 74 level which meant that your lands in the north would have been higher values then our lands in the south and unfurkinbelievably you still said no. phew that was a close shave.

let me give you an example of life today. a news item was about a lady who owns a house in manchester street that she bought for 80,000. her neighbour sold her house last year for 90k but she like her house and decided to stay despite the fact that the trend was not good and the area was heading downwards. the reason for the item is this. the local council owns a lot of the properties in that street and decided to put them up for sale for a pound. now what is the lady to do. can she claim her house was worth 80k last two weeks ago and sell it at that. nope i am afraid she is buggered and so are you.

not long left now. anastisades knows it is the end of the line. you will be offered what was in the last annan plan plus part of karpaz on take it or eave it basis. any tc land not exchanged in the south will remain tc property till the time they decide to sell, i have a feeling you boys still not learnt anything from the past 60 years and will leave it for a better deal in the future. after all stupid people do not just suddenly wise up do they.

you really must be blinded by rage not to see the storm ahead of you. if all the exchanges so far has been based on current value why on furkin earth would they switch to donum by donum basis for the agreement. have you all taken stupid pill today or what.

[Lordo]

So we will arrive at the ridiculous point (included in the Annan plan) of all EU citizens, EXCEPT CYPRIOT NATURAL PERSONS, having the right to own land in all parts of Cyprus. Legal persons, companies, are exempt because EU rules do not allow "looking behind the corporate veil" of publicly traded companies.

Ridiculous.
So... Let me ask clarification, would a Cypriot ( genetically speaking) born outside Cyprus be able to do so, who legally owns land already ?
If yes, then Lordo will be upset all those from the UK might come and set up residence...

why would i be upset at you coming from the uk to set up residency in the north. you are most welcome if you can live there.

[Maximus]

not long left now. anastisades knows it is the end of the line. you will be offered what was in the last annan plan plus part of karpaz on take it or eave it basis. any tc land not exchanged in the south will remain tc property till the time they decide to sell, i have a feeling you boys still not learnt anything from the past 60 years and will leave it for a better deal in the future. after all stupid people do not just suddenly wise up do they.

Akinci and his supporters are not offering anything new. Your deal is the same old crap. Your deal seems to keep getting worse which means its definitely worse than what the RoC has at the present time.

If you cant improve the deal then why would you expect anyone to take it by making it worse? What is the incentive to do so?

[Lordo]

Yes, yes, yes ... thank you Cousin Ennasespasso, for your Imaginative Turkeeesh Logik and Areeeethmetic.

... but we're a simple lot, who think simply and generously.

... and 18% is a simple and generous figure. 18% Territory with 18% Coastline (as said above).

Let us know when you want to settle matters on that basis.

dream on shillocharluimmu dream on. one day you will win the lottery. trust me you have more of a chance with that one. xerodjehalo ise delaya emadovorosmenos gavole.