Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

Is it OK with me if Turkey is the guarantor of TC security as long as no troops are on the island?

Security is a subjective issue and the final arbiter is the person in fear who says when he feels secure and this applies to both communities. Both have security issues, the GC side with the Turkish army the TC side with what they perceive as a GC threat.

I am not OK with any diminishing of Cypriot sovereignty. But under BBF any threat to security would be sharply defined and it would have to involve incursion by organized irregulars, since there would be no organized army any longer, into the territory of the threatened region. Anything less than that can hardly qualify as a threat. In those circumstance if the threatened region wants to call for help who is going to quibble about who they call?

There is another security issue we are not dealing with and that is an external threat agains the whole of the island, one which none of the "guarantors" want to face on our behalf. We are working hard to convince ourselves that this is not going to happen when events in our area have shown it can.

Now this Maras name. Where did it come from? Varosi comes from the Turkish word varoush, suburb. And it sounds funny to anyone familiar with Arabic, look up the word Maaras in Arabic and see why.

[Paphitis]

Pyro said above

"No, that's your own fixation that you can't get over. At best they will need their guarantees, to be safe. Today's situation was not created by accident. It was created because we abused our own power on the first place.
I will vote for a plan if it is generally as I expect it to be."

Agreed about security guarantees, but why does that have to involve the permanent stationing of foreign troops on Cypriot soil? In the framework of communal and territorial separation, (the basis of BBF), with an armed police force under their direct command and participation in the federal forces what is the meaning of the 650 Turkish soldiers in Cyprus forever.

Modern military means allow the intervention by Turkey in minutes in case of a threat to the integrity of the TC region or community, making the 650 soldiers a militarily meaningless demand but a symbolically significant one.

Conversely the TC side must have some regard of GC security sensitivies. The Turkish army has killed more Cypriots in a few days than all conflicts Cypriots have been involved in during the whole of the 20th century. Insisting on a contingent of this army being permanently on the island is less than diplomatic towards people supposedly regarded as "equal".

I presume that the two motherland contingents will be guaranteeing the integrity of the distinct regions and not the state as a whole. If we are talking about the state as a whole it is a non starter and it would get my NO straight off.

So if they didn't station 650 soldiers in Cyprus the Turkish "guarantees" would be OK with you? Why not guarantees by UN, EU or even NATO/Russia? Turkey wants to be a "Guarantor power" because she wants TCs to continue to DEPEND on her. And as long as the TCs depend on Turkey then Turkey will be able to continue to remote control them as they have been doing for decades.

God help you if you had Guarantees from Russia. They are at the least the same as Turkey if not worse!

At least in NATO, there is no unilateral power given to a single country which is likely to be abused.

In what way is Russia the same as Turkey as far as Cyprus is concerned? Not only Russia has never invaded or harmed Cyprus in any way but they always support us at the UN security council. On the other hand there are 2 NATO countries currently occupying parts of Cyprus.

Ukraine, Ossetia, and Georgia!

Putin also just happens to be the biggest criminal on the abet. Just a few months ago, the G20 leaders were in Australia, and the Russian Navy and Royal Australian Navy blue ere engaged in very serious war games obviously in an effort to intimidate Australia while our PM and that criminal were at the G20 and wouldn't even speak to each other.

He is a criminal!

And let's put this provocation into contact.

When Russia sent its entire Navy to Australia, Obama was also in Brisbane. But there were no American Ships or military grandstanding from the super power.

It was only when the Russians and Australians were playing what we're very serious and very dangerous war games just off the Australian coast, the Americans decided to send an entire Battle Group with Aircraft Carrier.

That was a clear provocation and very dangerous. Also very stupid! Very lucky that cool heads prevailed. He is a pretty cool cat our PM.

There is nothing for free from Russia. If they give you a buck, they will have your blood.

It says a lot when you do things like that while the G20 is on.

[Pyrpolizer]

And let's put this provocation into contact.

When Russia sent its entire Navy to Australia, Obama was also in Brisbane. But there were no American Ships or military grandstanding from the super power.

It was only when the Russians and Australians were playing what we're very serious and very dangerous war games just off the Australian coast, the Americans decided to send an entire Battle Group with Aircraft Carrier.

That was a clear provocation and very dangerous. Also very stupid! Very lucky that cool heads prevailed. He is a pretty cool cat our PM.

There is nothing for free from Russia. If they give you a buck, they will have your blood.

It says a lot when you do things like that while the G20 is on.

I don't know how criminal the Russians are all i know for sure is this

a)The West is shit scared from any possibility that the Orthodoxy axis may revive.I don't know what they fear the most, but in my opinion it's not as much about religion, as it is about the mental abilities of this axis that dates back to the Byzantium Empire.
Cyprus, Greece , the Balkans etc are natural allies with Russia in this respect.
b)Anastasiades already offered bases to the Russians in disguise form
c)Christofias got his financial injections from the Russians, and Merkel never digested it. Hence theyunleashed all their hate as soon as Anastasiades took over by forcing us do what we did with the Banks and basically rob the Russians.
d)Russians feel at home in Cyprus, and we understand each other quite well.
e)There has not been NOT EVEN ONE American President so far-except Obama- who has not started a new war....

[Nikitas]

The music has started! Erdo, speaking to reporters on his return from Kuwait today expressed the hope that Mr Akinci will not negotiate freely and that he will coordinate with Turkey. The guarantor powers cannot be excluded, he noted.

There we go again. The TCs are the apparent negotiators, Turkey is behind pulling the strings.

No wonder partition looks to some people as a relief.

Sometimes I wonder what the reaction would be, (local, international and Turkish) to an official declaration by the RoC that it recognises the TRNC, within territorial boundaries in line with the population ratio. The RoC is declared a multi ethnic multicultural republic with a new consitution which guarantees the rights of its minorities, the Armenians, Maronites, Latins and Roma, and the heads of the communities make the relevant public appearances and statements, in other words a media blitz to celebrate the establishment of the new direction of the RoC.


I am betting that such a move would invite Attila 3 on the basis that it is a violation of the treaty of establishment of a nation that Turkey does not even recognise.

Μπλέξαμε!

[bill cobbett]

Yes, indeed.

Covered by Zaman...

"... Erdoğan again commented on his spat with Akıncı on Tuesday, saying Akıncı cannot conduct negotiations with the Greek Cypriots on his own.

Speaking to a group of reporters en route to Turkey from a visit to Kuwait on Tuesday, Erdoğan reportedly said the Turkish and Greek Cypriot leaderships cannot solve the Cyprus problem on their own because Turkey and Greece are also involved as “guarantor states.”

“Mr. President [Akıncı] will not conduct this business as he wishes,” he said. ... "

An article which also reports on a spat between Mr Akinci and an AKP deputy by the name of Kuzu...

"... The newly elected Turkish Cypriot president on Wednesday criticized a senior lawmaker from the ruling Justice and Development Party (AK Party) for his remarks, in a statement which came on the heels of tension with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan.

In a statement posted on its website, the office of Mustafa Akıncı, who was elected as the new president of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (KKTC) on Sunday, said televised remarks by AK Party lawmaker Burhan Kuzu amounted to a “deep insult” directed toward Akıncı. ..."

http://www.todayszaman.com/diplomacy_kk ... 79280.html

[bill cobbett]

Ahh Mustapha... ayapses fotia... ...

[Pyrpolizer]

The music has started! Erdo, speaking to reporters on his return from Kuwait today expressed the hope that Mr Akinci will not negotiate freely and that he will coordinate with Turkey. The guarantor powers cannot be excluded, he noted.

There we go again. The TCs are the apparent negotiators, Turkey is behind pulling the strings.

No wonder partition looks to some people as a relief.

Sometimes I wonder what the reaction would be, (local, international and Turkish) to an official declaration by the RoC that it recognises the TRNC, within territorial boundaries in line with the population ratio. The RoC is declared a multi ethnic multicultural republic with a new consitution which guarantees the rights of its minorities, the Armenians, Maronites, Latins and Roma, and the heads of the communities make the relevant public appearances and statements, in other words a media blitz to celebrate the establishment of the new direction of the RoC.


I am betting that such a move would invite Attila 3 on the basis that it is a violation of the treaty of establishment of a nation that Turkey does not even recognise.

Μπλέξαμε!

Don't get disappointed.
Notice Akinci was planning to meet Anastasiades before visiting Ankara.
He changed his decision for understandable reasons. But the message was already sent to the Sultan.
Akinci will drag his feet, visit Ankara, hear what they will say, and from there on he will ignore them completely.
The Sultan has already under estimated the power of the TCs. Akinci is not the type of man who would accept to turn himself into a puppet.
He has the power of the TCs behind him who just need a spark to explode.

Nothing impossible!

[Lordo]

this is the one most appropriate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sjSHazjrWg

[kurupetos]

this is the one most appropriate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sjSHazjrWg

Not interested in cats and pussies.

[Paphitis]

And let's put this provocation into contact.

When Russia sent its entire Navy to Australia, Obama was also in Brisbane. But there were no American Ships or military grandstanding from the super power.

It was only when the Russians and Australians were playing what we're very serious and very dangerous war games just off the Australian coast, the Americans decided to send an entire Battle Group with Aircraft Carrier.

That was a clear provocation and very dangerous. Also very stupid! Very lucky that cool heads prevailed. He is a pretty cool cat our PM.

There is nothing for free from Russia. If they give you a buck, they will have your blood.

It says a lot when you do things like that while the G20 is on.

I don't know how criminal the Russians are all i know for sure is this

a)The West is shit scared from any possibility that the Orthodoxy axis may revive.I don't know what they fear the most, but in my opinion it's not as much about religion, as it is about the mental abilities of this axis that dates back to the Byzantium Empire.
Cyprus, Greece , the Balkans etc are natural allies with Russia in this respect.
b)Anastasiades already offered bases to the Russians in disguise form
c)Christofias got his financial injections from the Russians, and Merkel never digested it. Hence theyunleashed all their hate as soon as Anastasiades took over by forcing us do what we did with the Banks and basically rob the Russians.
d)Russians feel at home in Cyprus, and we understand each other quite well.
e)There has not been NOT EVEN ONE American President so far-except Obama- who has not started a new war....

I think Tony Abbott loves Orthodoxy. In fact it's just his style being so religious and all.

In Turkey, the first place he visited was the Greek Patriarchate in Constantinople. He did not go to the Turkish Commemoration because of criticism that the Turks changed the date of their commemoration to conflict with the Armenian Genocide. There are more Armenians than Turks in Australia.

But let's be realistic. There is no revival and nor should there be. The last thing we need is a cross between religious zealotry and a Nationalist Front of Orthodox around the world.

You're welcome to the Russians if you think you feel more at home. I don't and many of the rich one's have obtained their wealth from dubious relationships with the Communist Elites and the Mafia. 20 years ago, they were living in single room comm block apartments so you work it out.

The fact that they made a very serious provocation against Australia, a very peaceful country, is very telling. What they should have done is blow 1 of their ships up and that would have put some egg on their face not to mention their embarrassment. What could they do? Declare war because Australia attacked one of their Ships in Australia? Good luck because the American 5th Fleet was on its way too and all their ships would be sunk!

I don't have a cool head like Abbott. Probably just as well we have Abbott in power and not someone like me.

The thing about Grand Standing whether its from a country like Turkey or Russia, is that most of the time it is a bluff. Stand up to them and watch them run away. A bit like that school yard bully.