Cyprus-Forum.com

[Alexios]

Thanks

[Nikitas]

You forgot the Talat experience fast! He was touted as a "leftist" with progressive ideas (the left seems to hold a self created monopoly on "progress" everywhere), yet he proved an intractable negotiator.

The task of any TC negotiator is to present the confused Turkish foreign policy angle on Cyprus and the Eastern Mediterranean. They do not want a unitary truly independent fucntioning state, they do not want partition into two independent states, they do not want federation, they do not even want confederation if it is accompanied by EU aquis obligations, they do not want double union.

Who is the sales rep for this confusion is not really relevant.

[Alexios]

I tend to agree Nikita. But do WE know what we want??

[Nikitas]

Since 1977 we made the big move, accepted partition, but albeit in its polite form of BBF.

We are fairly clear on the "governance" aspects. I personally fear we are not up on the geopolitical aspect and the importance of territory, now and in the future, which is why we always leave that side last in the negotiations.

It is vitally important to clarify the status of the British bases, and to insist that on their departure they revert to the GC region. Is sounds funny but it will not be if it happens, ie the TC region making claims on half of Akrotiri base for instance. Additionally any settlement must contain provisions that the TC community and Turkey, relinquish all claims to all parts of the ISLAND (as a geographical entity, not a political one) not granted to them under the agreement.

Any opening, any chance to create problems in the future, must be dealt with now, and it is not. So in that major area, no we do not know what we want. We exhaust ourselves on our usual national hobby horse- the dialectic.

The map, submitted by Kifeas a long time ago, shows what 18 per cent of the territory looks like, any deviation from that is an additional compromise after acceptance of BBF.

[B25]

I ll not fall to your standards B25
But i ll have you in mind...

Please do, because there is a place for traitors and that's 6ft under.

The reason we have no solution today, is essentially because of people like you, you support the enemy in place of your own.

I wonder how many casinos and whore houses you visited on the other side, since you feel so comfortable there. You even refer to them by teir illegal name giving them credence.

Hade assirktir pou tziame.

[Pyrpolizer]

You forgot the Talat experience fast! He was touted as a "leftist" with progressive ideas (the left seems to hold a self created monopoly on "progress" everywhere), yet he proved an intractable negotiator.

The task of any TC negotiator is to present the confused Turkish foreign policy angle on Cyprus and the Eastern Mediterranean. They do not want a unitary truly independent fucntioning state, they do not want partition into two independent states, they do not want federation, they do not even want confederation if it is accompanied by EU aquis obligations, they do not want double union.

Who is the sales rep for this confusion is not really relevant.

What do you mean intractable?? We had real good progress with Talat considering Tassos the crocodile tears lunatic who almost buried us alive with the way he handled the Anan plan . We need clever people with who we can communicate not retards like Eroglu. Akinci is one of them.
The confusion that you talk about was actually triggered by the "TC" leadership which so far was mainly Denktashes and Eroglus. In fact Eroglu is currently focusing his campaign on those who believe on the future of TrasnNcan

[Pyrpolizer]

The map, submitted by Kifeas a long time ago, shows what 18 per cent of the territory looks like, any deviation from that is an additional compromise after acceptance of BBF.

notice that's not 18% that's 19.6% to make it 18% you have to deduct the peninsula from Leonarisso to Apostolos Andreas.

[repulsewarrior]

In any case, dividing the island in two is not Justice seen, even if it was 11%, or 9%; not that it should be all "Greek", either. Needs can be fulfilled, but as Cypriots, whether the overwhelming majority is Greek in origin or not, Cypriots can fulfill their needs to be Individuals, surely, and as Persons as well. If there are Cypriot Constituencies, there must be many, just as surely as there should be a Republic of Cyprus which represents its Citizens without these distinctions or discrimination.

...it is not up to Akinci, or the Turkish Constituency, if Cyprus has as its equal other Cypriot Constituencies. But i imagine that he is not at all averse to the idea that as Cypriots we are represented by ourselves as Cypriots, first.

[Nikitas]

Pyro,

Remember Talat and all that back and forth over the joint ticket president-vice president? That is what I meant by intractable.

My perception, and I may be wrong, is that the GC side is free to decide whatever it wants as long as the choice do not involve Greece in any new problems (for Greece). In short Greece got rid of the Cyprus problem in 1974 and is reluctant to get drawn back in. Evidence of this is Davut's efforts to get the Greeks to get more actively involved and their polite refusal.

On the TC side I do not perceive any freedom of manouver for any TC leader. They must follow Turkish desires but those are not clear. The Turks seem to have no exit strategy in this and just cling to the old notion that for them it is a "national issue" which does not say much about the specifics. They want separation and unity, independent regional policy yet retain a veto that may affect the GC region, EU participation where their main thrust will be to thwart any active national presence of Cyprus in EU instititutions unless rubber stamped by Turkey.

Note how Cyprus recently took a stand which was interpreted as anti Greek and finance minister Georgiadis was dragged over the coals by the Greek media, but the position remained unchanged. I cannot see the TCs ever doing something similar with Turkey.

Against this background I do not see Akinci presenting any new direction. I may be wrong, hopefully I am.

[Pyrpolizer]

Pyro,

Remember Talat and all that back and forth over the joint ticket president-vice president? That is what I meant by intractable.

My perception, and I may be wrong, is that the GC side is free to decide whatever it wants as long as the choice do not involve Greece in any new problems (for Greece). In short Greece got rid of the Cyprus problem in 1974 and is reluctant to get drawn back in. Evidence of this is Davut's efforts to get the Greeks to get more actively involved and their polite refusal.

On the TC side I do not perceive any freedom of manouver for any TC leader. They must follow Turkish desires but those are not clear. The Turks seem to have no exit strategy in this and just cling to the old notion that for them it is a "national issue" which does not say much about the specifics. They want separation and unity, independent regional policy yet retain a veto that may affect the GC region, EU participation where their main thrust will be to thwart any active national presence of Cyprus in EU instititutions unless rubber stamped by Turkey.

Note how Cyprus recently took a stand which was interpreted as anti Greek and finance minister Georgiadis was dragged over the coals by the Greek media, but the position remained unchanged. I cannot see the TCs ever doing something similar with Turkey.

Against this background I do not see Akinci presenting any new direction. I may be wrong, hopefully I am.

I think you refer to the common voting for President-Vice president offer by Christofias. If yes Ankara had nothing to do with it, it was something between the TCs exclussdively.
You are not wrong that the TC leadership is not that free to decide, but at the same time if you beleive Ankara moves all the strings (like our sorry Gvnt and politicians think) you are not right either. Anyway you look at it the TCs are dependent to Ankara alright, but that does not mean they are yes men to her regarding what they want for a solution.
Similarly it's the Tcs who are confused as to what they want and this is mainly due to the long era of the Denktashes-Eroglus. Ankara just wants the problem solved, don't be so sure they adore the TCs, in fact they got sick of each other to the point Erdo called them ungrateful British bastards.
A clever TC leader like Akinci is required to wake up the TCs make up their minds as to what is possible and what is impossible.