Cyprus-Forum.com

[Mustiejodu]

In the time that I have been on this forum and had discussions or more to the point heated disagreements . I have come to a conclusion that no one actually agrees with anything . This forum really has not helped us formulate any solution but just to vent our anger and arguments . Just read through all the topics and you will notice that GCS don't even acknowledge TCs equall to themselves and continually put them down . TCs on this forum constantly are trying to justify their existence and to be honest are being pushed into a identity crises . Your damned if you claim to be a turkish Cypriot because the GCS really don't accept you as a cypriot but just smile in your face and act that we are all cypriots .your damned if you claim to be a turk because the greeks hate you with a passion . We are so devided in our opinions and beliefs that we can never find a solution that will solve this so called cyprus problem . Some people believe the cyprus problem was solved in 1974 and some people believe that was the cause of the cyprus problem . Which ever way you believe you can at least agree that we have not been at war with each orther for the past 40 years . Why do you think we have not had a full blown war with each other and there is turkish armed forces based in cyprus ? Have we had any masacres since 1974 ? Have we had any villages being burned or women being raped ? Since 1974 . What do you think has stopped us from committing these attrocities to each other ? Do you think tc s and GCS TRUELY have forgiven each other or is there any animosity still amongst a lot of people . What do think ? Your thoughts most welcome .

[repulsewarrior]

...Mustie, i think you are satisfied with dividing people into two categories, "Greeks", and "Turks". But, for many of us, Greek and Turkish, we consider the value in representing ourselves, more precisely, as Individuals, and as Persons. Thus there is a lot to be said for defending Individual Rights, and the notion of Freedom. You i suggest, regard your identity as a Person, in a manner where it is your only choice, as though it is not possible to have both Freedom (as Human Beings) and Liberty, (to live a daily life as a Person within their own community). I suggest that you are acting as an apologist for the status quo, secretly, i think you hope that things will stay the way they are because it suits you personally.

Cyprus exists, so too Cypriots. If you are willing to deceive yourself, it is because you are no better than the "Greek", as a "Turk" you have as an adversary. If you are a Cypriot, you know that the debate is flawed, that it is both hijacked by "Greeks", and occupied by "Turks" (not one, or the other). And it leaves the rest of us, those who believe in Universal Principals, without a voice that can be heard while they hold the Agenda.

...if you are not a "Turk", but a Cypriot of Turkish origin, you might consider that i am not a "Greek", but a Cypriot of Greek origin. In any case, it is not the Turkish Army which prevents "war", it is us, the "us" who are Cypriot, the other half if you will; neither is it your own unreasonable fear, and the mongering that goes with it, because by choosing "sides" you are aiding and abetting the crimes "they" make. We are better off as Cypriots, whether at another level of government there is representation for Persons as Cypriot Constituencies, or not; there is a Cypriot way, ask yourself instead, where is the Greek Constituency (if there is to be a Turkish Constituency)?

And if you want to twist your mind ask yourself, where is the Turkic Constituency in Turkey (if there is to be a Kurdish Constituency, (or Alevis) essentially for the same reasons)? Why not a BBF in Turkey, the Flag of Turkey which flies above the rest, and at another level of Government, Turkish Constituencies?

[SKI-preo]

most of the proposals for a solution by Turkish Cypriots end with you accept war crimes like ethnic cleansing with out repatriation and go Eff yourselves because "Shit happens".

[Jerry]

Just read through all the topics and you will notice that GCS don't even acknowledge TCs equall to themselves and continually put them down .

You have identified a major cause of the problem. During the independence negotiations Turkey managed to screw this "equal community" crap out of the British. Turkey saw this as a way of influencing the proposed government in Cyprus. For all practical purposes it meant that one TC vote was equal to four GC ones, it implied a return to Ottoman dominance. As individuals of course all Cypriots are equal but to enshrine equal community status to an 18% minority in a State's constitution is nonsense and was bound to fail. That's why the "super Cypriots", the Turkish Cypriots, are "put down", as you call it, by their fellow countrymen.

[Pyrpolizer]

In the time that I have been on this forum and had discussions or more to the point heated disagreements . I have come to a conclusion that no one actually agrees with anything . This forum really has not helped us formulate any solution but just to vent our anger and arguments . Just read through all the topics and you will notice that GCS don't even acknowledge TCs equall to themselves and continually put them down . TCs on this forum constantly are trying to justify their existence and to be honest are being pushed into a identity crises . Your damned if you claim to be a turkish Cypriot because the GCS really don't accept you as a cypriot but just smile in your face and act that we are all cypriots .your damned if you claim to be a turk because the greeks hate you with a passion . We are so devided in our opinions and beliefs that we can never find a solution that will solve this so called cyprus problem . Some people believe the cyprus problem was solved in 1974 and some people believe that was the cause of the cyprus problem . Which ever way you believe you can at least agree that we have not been at war with each orther for the past 40 years . Why do you think we have not had a full blown war with each other and there is turkish armed forces based in cyprus ? Have we had any masacres since 1974 ? Have we had any villages being burned or women being raped ? Since 1974 . What do you think has stopped us from committing these attrocities to each other ? Do you think tc s and GCS TRUELY have forgiven each other or is there any animosity still amongst a lot of people . What do think ? Your thoughts most welcome .

1)Yes unfortunately this is the nature of the forum. To vent out anger. Nothing constructive other than FINALLY understanding you have common humans in front of you to talk with, be it Kypreoi or Kibrislis.

2)The same thing happens in cemeteries. Eternal peace. This is no solution. LIVING people need to face and solve problems and disputes.It even happens within families. This will be the challenge in case the Cy problem gets solved.

3)The majority have not forgiven especially if they suffered personally. You will be surprised how much time they need to forgive after they meet personally. Half an hour the maximum. It's human nature.I beleive in case of solution everything will be forgotten within months.Assuming of course the solution works.

[Nikitas]

This is not a Greek-Turk problem, it never was.

The key here is the TCs attitude towards ALL other communities of the island, not just the GCs.

No other communities have intercommunal problems. They all get along, none of us question whether Armenians, Maronites, Latins or Roma are equal or if they are Cypriots, because they do not question their Cypriotness.

The behavior of the TCs once they got what they wanted, partition, is indicative. They "nationalised" properties of members of ALL other communities. They excluded all others from the area they controlled. THey left no room for anyone but TCs and foreigners they see as usful clients. In short they have no tolerance for "otherness".

They continually claim to be a special case, demanding special treatment way beyond what international norms provide, ie the UN charter or the EU aquis, for minorities. But they NEVER even hinted that the other minorities on the island should have the same treatment.

If 18 per cent is equal to 80 per cent, then the 2 per cent (the Armenians)_ should equal the 18 per cent. If numbers are not important then ALL minorities are equal. In this forum this idea was dismissed with the racist comment that the other minorities of the island sided with the GCs so they deserve to get FA.

With this racial superiority complex you wonder about being divided forever! You have cut yourselves off from the rest of the Cypriots. You clamour about being a special case. So stay there in your special case. If and when you ever decide you are Cypriots and start behaving like Cypriots then there will be no problem.

[Lordo]

This is not a Greek-Turk problem, it never was.

The key here is the TCs attitude towards ALL other communities of the island, not just the GCs.

No other communities have intercommunal problems. They all get along, none of us question whether Armenians, Maronites, Latins or Roma are equal or if they are Cypriots, because they do not question their Cypriotness.

The behavior of the TCs once they got what they wanted, partition, is indicative. They "nationalised" properties of members of ALL other communities. They excluded all others from the area they controlled. THey left no room for anyone but TCs and foreigners they see as usful clients. In short they have no tolerance for "otherness".

They continually claim to be a special case, demanding special treatment way beyond what international norms provide, ie the UN charter or the EU aquis, for minorities. But they NEVER even hinted that the other minorities on the island should have the same treatment.

If 18 per cent is equal to 80 per cent, then the 2 per cent (the Armenians)_ should equal the 18 per cent. If numbers are not important then ALL minorities are equal. In this forum this idea was dismissed with the racist comment that the other minorities of the island sided with the GCs so they deserve to get FA.

With this racial superiority complex you wonder about being divided forever! You have cut yourselves off from the rest of the Cypriots. You clamour about being a special case. So stay there in your special case. If and when you ever decide you are Cypriots and start behaving like Cypriots then there will be no problem.

is that the key, so you see no racism against tcs by gcs. aint it funny that you could not see the truth if it smacked you in the face.

[Maximus]

This is not a Greek-Turk problem, it never was.

The key here is the TCs attitude towards ALL other communities of the island, not just the GCs.

No other communities have intercommunal problems. They all get along, none of us question whether Armenians, Maronites, Latins or Roma are equal or if they are Cypriots, because they do not question their Cypriotness.

The behavior of the TCs once they got what they wanted, partition, is indicative. They "nationalised" properties of members of ALL other communities. They excluded all others from the area they controlled. THey left no room for anyone but TCs and foreigners they see as usful clients. In short they have no tolerance for "otherness".

They continually claim to be a special case, demanding special treatment way beyond what international norms provide, ie the UN charter or the EU aquis, for minorities. But they NEVER even hinted that the other minorities on the island should have the same treatment.

If 18 per cent is equal to 80 per cent, then the 2 per cent (the Armenians)_ should equal the 18 per cent. If numbers are not important then ALL minorities are equal. In this forum this idea was dismissed with the racist comment that the other minorities of the island sided with the GCs so they deserve to get FA.

With this racial superiority complex you wonder about being divided forever! You have cut yourselves off from the rest of the Cypriots. You clamour about being a special case. So stay there in your special case. If and when you ever decide you are Cypriots and start behaving like Cypriots then there will be no problem.

is that the key, so you see no racism against tcs by gcs. aint it funny that you could not see the truth if it smacked you in the face.

Since the division of the island, GC property has been stolen, nationalized and pillaged and two GC's have been killed by the TC's side. The GC's have responded with
-paying for your electricity,
-Free medical care
-granting you all EU passports,
-holding your properties in trust,
-maintaining your places of worship,
-maintaining your right to work in the Republic.
-agreeing that all mineral wealth belongs to all Cypriot citizens.
-Demanding democracy and a fair and just solution to this 50+ year problem.

Can you please clarify and elaborate on what you mean by GC's racism against TC's and tell us the truth?

Dont think so, instead all the GC's hear from the TC's is we are equal and whats stolen is now ours and Turkey's and whats left we will share. In other words, apartheid and cognitive dissonance.

[Nikitas]

WELL SAID MAXIMUS!!!!

I would add that while 12000 TCs cross to the south and work every day, GCs do not have the right to do much more in the north than spend money and frequent casinos and brothels and nothing else. As far as I know overnight stay is prohibited.

[repulsewarrior]

Cyprus does not belong to "Greeks" or "Turks", it belongs to Cypriots. Cyprus is not "Turkish", nor is it not not "Turkish" (read: (now) "Greek"), although Cypriots as Persons have distinct identities. If a BBF is the great compromise, the step down so to speak from a Unitary Government, i ask, how is the Turkish Constituency an equal to the Republic? It is not. But without the existence of Cypriot Constituencies, it has no equals. There should be no equal to the Republic of Cyprus, if it defends Universal Principals; no distinction or discrimination should exist in identifying Cypriots as Citizens with Individual Rights, and Obligations. As Cypriot Constituencies, at another level of government, it is possible to sustain as Persons a way of life that suits such an electorate as a Majority, that expresses its Goodwill toward the Minorities that live amongst them.

...there is no either, or, Cyprus exists. Turkish Cypriots by representing themselves as Cypriots can demand that an equal presents itself in a Communal Chamber. And as i've said before, Sovereignty aside, the Communities as Communities would find equal needs, they have, toward sustaining themselves, as Persons. To the Republic, toward its reform, this would be of value.