Cyprus-Forum.com

[Robin Hood]

I cannot believe the rubbish this French investigator/prosecutor is saying live on TV. So far all they have is the CVR and ….. speculation! Until the FDR is found and the control parameters are defined, how on earth can anyone assume that the co-pilot (First Officer) did this deliberately? They heard breathing (Unconscious??), the banging on the door and nothing else, so this investigator just assumes he was alive and therefore deliberately made the conscious decision to take the flight down.

A 28 year old man, who had spent his whole life aiming to be a pilot, does not just decide to end it all. He had achieved what he set out to do in life and at 28 was sitting in RH seat he had spent a long time aiming for. For me, I would have regarded it as all my dreams come true. If he had intended to bring the aircraft down he would have turned the automatic pilot off and put the aircraft into a dive, not set it up for an approach and put it into a controlled (albeit a rather rapid?) descent?

Paphitis, I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong but if the aircraft was configured on the automatic pilot then there are only two things the pilot can do without overriding its control? He can dial up a new altitude and/or a new speed? Until they find the FDR and analyse the data nobody knows what happened on the flight deck and if it turns out this investigator is completely wrong ………….. he should be fired.

[Paphitis]

I cannot believe the rubbish this French investigator/prosecutor is saying live on TV. So far all they have is the CVR and ….. speculation! Until the FDR is found and the control parameters are defined, how on earth can anyone assume that the co-pilot (First Officer) did this deliberately? They heard breathing (Unconscious??), the banging on the door and nothing else, so this investigator just assumes he was alive and therefore deliberately made the conscious decision to take the flight down.

A 28 year old man, who had spent his whole life aiming to be a pilot, does not just decide to end it all. He had achieved what he set out to do in life and at 28 was sitting in RH seat he had spent a long time aiming for. For me, I would have regarded it as all my dreams come true. If he had intended to bring the aircraft down he would have turned the automatic pilot off and put the aircraft into a dive, not set it up for an approach and put it into a controlled (albeit a rather rapid?) descent?

Paphitis, I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong but if the aircraft was configured on the automatic pilot then there are only two things the pilot can do without overriding its control? He can dial up a new altitude and/or a new speed? Until they find the FDR and analyse the data nobody knows what happened on the flight deck and if it turns out this investigator is completely wrong ………….. he should be fired.

There are 5 modes - Heading, Lateral Navigation LNAV, VOR/LOC, Altitude, Vertical Speed and Level.

The aircraft can be flown manually if certain computers fail or are switched off in a particular combination. Side stick inputs will now over ride the FBW. If all computers fail, or are switched off, the aircraft is in mechanical reversion. The FBW is over ridden from Rudder Cable inputs which provide primary Yaw and Secondary Roll and through the Stabilizer Trim for Pitch. You can also roll the aircraft with differential power inputs. This is a scenario that is practiced in the sim.

Of course, all that is required is to change the ALT Select to the nominated level and the aircraft will climb or descend and the auto throttle will adjust the power settings. You can even couple the ALT change by nominating a vertical speed - rate of Descend or Rate of Climb. Again the auto throttle will adjust the power settings as required and the FBW will adjust the Pitch through the Stabilizer Trim.

[Robin Hood]

I am a PPL, not an airline pilot but I once went from Manchester(UK) to Frankfurt (D), gate-to-gate, on the flight deck of a 474/400 and was surprised that the captain and the first officer spent most of the time showing me how the system works. They only looked out the window when we were on finals to Frankfurt. The rest of the time all they did was respond to ATC instructions on Speed and FL/Altitude, frequencies etc. on the radio.

When asked as we parked at Frankfurt if I thought I could fly a 747 ...... I said "No problem!" the only problem I could foresee was when he had the wheels on the ground, I would normally still be deciding whether to give the Warrior full flaps!

So basically, I am correct that in normal flight the controls when on Auto Pilot are very limited? I think too many of the 'experts' are jumping to conclusions and these can only be confirmed when they find the FDR, but have decided to blame the young pilot anyway.

[Paphitis]

I am a PPL, not an airline pilot but I once went from Manchester(UK) to Frankfurt (D), gate-to-gate, on the flight deck of a 474/400 and was surprised that the captain and the first officer spent most of the time showing me how the system works. They only looked out the window when we were on finals to Frankfurt. The rest of the time all they did was respond to ATC instructions on Speed and FL/Altitude, frequencies etc. on the radio.

When asked as we parked at Frankfurt if I thought I could fly a 747 ...... I said "No problem!" the only problem I could foresee was when he had the wheels on the ground, I would normally still be deciding whether to give the Warrior full flaps!

So basically, I am correct that in normal flight the controls when on Auto Pilot are very limited? I think too many of the 'experts' are jumping to conclusions and these can only be confirmed when they find the FDR, but have decided to blame the young pilot anyway.

Infortunately it is looking very ominous I'm afraid. There is absolutely no excuse for descending from the nominated cruise altitude of FL380 until Top of Decent. The aircraft descended below the Lower Safe Altitude LSALT. This should never occur under ANY circumstances, even when depressurized. The LSALT provides a minimum 1000FT Obstacle clearance above the highest terrain on the Hi IFR Route or within the area grid. There was no mention of the Ground Proximity Warning which could be switched off.

And flying a plane as advance as this is easy. It's the management of all the systems and knowing all the emergency procedures which is the challenge as well as making sound command decisions related to those systems, weather, fuel, alternates and maintaining good Threat and Error Management as well. There are 104 emergency procedures alone - the A320 may have a few more than that. Also, there is a lot of pressure on pilots. 2 strikes in the sim, and you lose your job.

That is why pilots are paid the big bucks in reputable non LCC.

[miltiades]

According to the BBC, a significant discovery has been made at the house of the co pilot said to have intentionally crashed the plane.

"Mr Lubitz has been accused by French prosecutors of intentionally flying an Airbus 320 into the French Alps, with 150 people on board.

Now investigators are poring over his background, trying to ascertain his exact mental state in the days leading up to crash"

[Kikapu]

There have been 3 confirmed suicide flights and 1 unconfirmed suicide flight in recent years - Silk Air, FedEx, GermanWings, and MH370 (unconfirmed).

There were two more suicide-murder plane crashes.

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990

2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_So ... light_1771

In the EgyptAir case, there were 4 pilots on duty for that flight, but 3 were out of the flight deck shortly after take-off from JFK leaving the suicide pilot to put the plane into a steep dive, which eventually ripped the wings off the aircraft due to excess forces, exerted on the wings due to high speed.

The PSA flight incident was due to disgruntled employee who shot the flight crew in the cockpit and put the plane into a dive.

[miltiades]

"German media has painted a picture of a man with a history of depression who had received psychological treatment, and who might have been distressed by a falling-out with his girlfriend.

3 minutes ago

A German aviation official has said Mr Lubitz's file at the country's Federal Aviation Office contained an "SIC" note, meaning he needed "specific regular medical examination".

Neighbours said he was phsically fit, going jogging and appearing "very healthy".

29 minutes ago
German prosecutors did not specify what the illness that caused Mr Lubitz to be signed off work was.
"Medical documents were confiscated that point towards an existing illness and corresponding treatment by doctors.
"The fact there are sick notes saying he was unable to work, among other things, that were found torn up, which were recent and even from the day of the crime, support the assumption based on the preliminary assessment that the deceased concealed his illness from his employer and his colleagues."

[Paphitis]

Well I am completely disgusted at the media and irrelevant commentary from persons who don't even know what they are talking about.

Firstly, these things can happen. There is NO chance whatsoever that airlines, and regulators will be able to prevent every possible eventuality and have a clean slate in air travel. The regulators, and media need to understand that risk mitigation is key. Hence we can come up with sensible proposals such as the "rule of 2" in the cockpit, and proper peer and mentor monitoring. Hate to say it, but this may reduce the chances (debateable) but it will not prevent something like this occuring again.

Or, we can go down the ridiculous path of stigmatizing not just pilots but also anyone else who may be mentally or psychologically unwell. Yes, there are indications that regulators will legislate compulsory psychiatric screening and monitoring. If that is the case, then they should introduce such legislation to others such as Bus Drivers, Car Licence holders, gun licence holders, surgeons, and the list can go on. Also being discussed is the possibility that pilots and their doctors are to disclose all medical records.

I mean really?

Suffice to say, there are indications that Pilot Unions and Associations are vigorously going to oppose these stupid things! And we got the money to fight regulators all the way.

Stupid people! Everyone thinks they are a crash investigator now!

People should just shut it!

[Paphitis]

Not to mention the fact that any screening is going to do bugger all about detecting any unwell Pilots.

If anyone knows someone who suicided, then you would know that such individuals are able to hide any evidence of their impending action.

[miltiades]

Not to mention the fact that any screening is going to do bugger all about detecting any unwell Pilots.

If anyone knows someone who suicided, then you would know that such individuals are able to hide any evidence of their impending action.

Paphitis, if what we have read so far is accurate then this monster who commited such barbarity must have some sort of mental record that someone might have been aware of.

Any measures that the aviation industry take to eliminate the possibilty of such a tragedy occuring again has my full support.

Pilots are rather different from bus drivers in my opinion.