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civilised discussion about christianity

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Re: civilised discussion about christianity

Postby Maximus » Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:52 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:All relegions derive from the human fear of death and they deal with various aspects of death- including murder- in one way or another.

@ Tim:
I told them many times in this forum we are an army of slaves yet nobody ever paid any attention.
Who was that prophet who was raised to heaven? Ezekiil I think? Just post them the part of the bible describing his ascent to heaven. If that won't shake them nothing will.


Nothing will shake the indoctrinated of course, but it is amusing to try from time to time, and they don't have the inquisition to fall back on any more!


religion, specifically, Christianity derived from Jesus Christ.

If Jesus Christ was alive today, he would be a self help guru or some sort of life coach.
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Re: civilised discussion about christianity

Postby Maximus » Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:53 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
Maximus wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Maximus wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:Just had a glance at Genesis 2 and I see that God, already having created Adam, then created all of the beasts and only then, from one of Adam's ribs, made Eve. So, it is men first, beasts second and women third. How bizzare! Never mind, it must all be a figure of speech.


so what?


You don't find it somewhat bizarre that men alone existed while all the beasts were created (even though Genesis 1 tells us that God created the beasts first i.e. Genesis 1: 20-25 and THEN man i.e. Genesis 1 : 26 "God created man in his own image" - his own image? Odd, yet when God's sons procreate with humans, they produce Nephilim that look different from humans!) - and we know that this was a process lasting billions of years - and only then women were created? I find it very bizarre. That's what.


This is from the king James version

25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.


There is none so blind as those who will not see. Yes, Genesis one tells us that God created the beats before man, yet the very next verse tells us that God created Adam and THEN the beasts. Contradiction. Get it? Of course you don't.


Just quote it from wherever you have got this from and show me.
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Re: civilised discussion about christianity

Postby Tim Drayton » Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:55 pm

Maximus wrote:
...

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.


By the way, thanks for that, you have just identified another stark contradiction. According to Genesis 1 (as quoted above), God created men and women at the same time, yet in the next verse he created men first, the beasts second and women third.
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Re: civilised discussion about christianity

Postby Maximus » Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:57 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
Maximus wrote:
...

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.


By the way, thanks for that, you have just identified another stark contradiction. According to Genesis 1 (as quoted above), God created men and women at the same time, yet in the next verse he created men first, the beasts second and women third.


Which verse, show me.....

this is the next verse.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
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Re: civilised discussion about christianity

Postby Tim Drayton » Fri Mar 06, 2015 9:00 pm

Maximus wrote:
Just quote it from wherever you have got this from and show me.


Genesis 2. Please study this carefully, and tell me, according to this verse, what order the beasts, women and men were created:

2 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.

11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;

12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.

13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.

14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.

15 And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
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Re: civilised discussion about christianity

Postby Tim Drayton » Fri Mar 06, 2015 9:05 pm

PS - Sorry, I was confusing chapter with verse. It is chapters 1 and 2 of Genesis that are in stark contradiction with one another.
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Re: civilised discussion about christianity

Postby Tim Drayton » Fri Mar 06, 2015 9:10 pm

Maximus wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:All relegions derive from the human fear of death and they deal with various aspects of death- including murder- in one way or another.

@ Tim:
I told them many times in this forum we are an army of slaves yet nobody ever paid any attention.
Who was that prophet who was raised to heaven? Ezekiil I think? Just post them the part of the bible describing his ascent to heaven. If that won't shake them nothing will.


Nothing will shake the indoctrinated of course, but it is amusing to try from time to time, and they don't have the inquisition to fall back on any more!


religion, specifically, Christianity derived from Jesus Christ.

If Jesus Christ was alive today, he would be a self help guru or some sort of life coach.


So he would disagree with Galileo being threatened with torture if he didn't recant his view (based on empirical experimental research) that the Earth revolved around the sun (so as not to conflict with the blind religious dogma of the day based on nothing but obedience, backed up if necessary with naked force, to texts that are riddled with contradictions)?
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Re: civilised discussion about christianity

Postby Maximus » Fri Mar 06, 2015 9:13 pm

OK, I get what you are looking at now.

Genesis 1 contains the order of creation. Beasts first and man (male and female) second. The 7th day, his work was done.

Genesis 2, verse 2. his work is done and he rested.

Just because it says in verse 19 that God formed every beast out of the ground after he talks about man in verse 15 does not mean that he created Adam first now. At least, not in my interpretation.
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Re: civilised discussion about christianity

Postby Tim Drayton » Fri Mar 06, 2015 9:14 pm

Anyway, what is this "If Jesus Christ was alive today" stuff. I thought he was resurrected. Doesn't that mean that he is supposed to be alive. You know, 'Christos anesti' and all that.
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Re: civilised discussion about christianity

Postby Tim Drayton » Fri Mar 06, 2015 9:18 pm

Maximus wrote:OK, I get what you are looking at now.

Genesis 1 contains the order of creation. Beasts first and man (male and female) second. The 7th day, his work was done.

Genesis 2, verse 2. his work is done and he rested.

Just because it says in verse 19 that God formed every beast out of the ground after he talks about man in verse 15 does not mean that he created Adam first now. At least, not in my interpretation.


'Not in my interpretation.' No, because you are brainwashed and nothing I tell you will change that. But, just for the record, it says "And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field." The good lord God looked and saw that man was alone, i.e. he had already created man, and then decided to create the beasts because of this. It is perfectly clear that there is an order and God created Adam first and then the beasts (except chapter one says it was the other way round).
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