Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

The enemy is not one hundred times bigger than us. On the ground, as explained above, the forces are about equal.

The purpose of the CNG now, (and this was stated even by mild mannered and "progressive" Greek politicians like George Papandreou), is to resist long enough for either a cease fire or a generalised Greek Turkish conflict which will reach from Famagusta to the Evros river in norther Greece.

Putting the situation in terms of who is and who is not chicken etc, is not the way to deal with it. Neither is disarming. Can you be so sure that the Turks will not push to take over the whole island, as Davutoglu often said their long term objective is? Read his books. They will tell you a lot about the opponent.

And the Russians didn't send the whole Russian army to defeat the Georgians. They just send us much as it was needed. If the Turks wanted to take the whole Cyprus militarily they could have upgraded / increased their troops as needed and then proceed.

If the Turks wanted to take the whole Cyprus what is stopping them is not CNG, but the consequences they could face (sanctions etc).

Unlike partition which was an option from the 50s (and discussed with the British) where they could send GCs to the south, occupying the whole of Cyprus would mean either a genocide of 800.000 people, or turning Cypriots into Palestinians, which would be an ongoing problem for them in their international relations far bigger than the problems that their current occupation causes to them. It is this that stops them from taking the rest of Cyprus, and not because Erdogan or Davutoglu care to sacrifice some Turkish troops to get the job done.

Turkey wants to control Cyprus in other ways. Via a solution that would make the whole Cyprus their vassal and not by actually occupying the whole island. And I repeat: If they wanted to occupy the whole island, casualties caused by the CNG would be the least of their concerns.

What brings us closer and closer to accepting a solution that will make us a Turkish vassal is the fact that we are broke and our debtors are using that as a leverage to force us to close the Cyprus problem as soon as possible. This makes wasting money on the useless CNG doubly stupid.

That would have been Turkey's biggest mistake right there.

Unfortunately, they were a lot smarter than we gave them credit for.

[Atheist]

And one more point Nikitas. If the Turks wanted to take the whole Cyprus militarily disregarding any international political consequences, and what was stopping them was just CNG, then why wouldn't they agree to any solution we want as long as Cyprus is demilitarized (which is something we already agreed) and then come the next day and occupy the whole Cyprus?

[Paphitis]

The speeches during Morning Muster were legendary. Some very brutal and notable ones which none of us will ever forget for as long as we live.

The speeches were 90% insults and degradation. An example is:

"God help the future of Australia when you lot represent the top 1% of Australian Youth" They were serious about it too.

"The Anzacs would be rolling in their graves because of you maggots"

"you are all so pathetic, I was considering resignation" and so on and so on it went.

First, God help you if they saw a wrinkle in your uniform or if your shoes were not polished. Punishment was usually collective. If someone did something wrong, the entire unit is punished together. Sometimes, they made examples of individuals. God help you if the Flag Detail mistakenly let the Australian Flaf, Ensign or Collours touch the ground.

[Paphitis]

And one more point Nikitas. If the Turks wanted to take the whole Cyprus militarily disregarding any international political consequences, and what was stopping them was just CNG, then why wouldn't they agree to any solution we want as long as Cyprus is demilitarized (which is something we already agreed) and then come the next day and occupy the whole Cyprus?

Occupying an entire country is not an easy thing to accomplish for any power. not even the USA can accomplish this with complete security and we are talking about a superpower here.

I actually believe that this would have played into our hands somewhat, because Cypriots would have just organized themselves into a Guerrilla outfit and that is something that is very difficult to combat as a conventional army. Cypriots have done this before.

All of a sudden, Turkey has an eternal war on its hands that is never ending. The International Community would be forced into action, at least at a diplomatic level.

There would be so much pressure on Turkey for a resolution.

[Sotos]

Atheist, the funding of the CNG is already reduced... we can't totally disband the army because that would be a message of surrender. Our army has more of a symbolic meaning. It says "We don't give up and if we ever get the chance we will use force to get back what is ours". Of course that chance doesn't seem to be anywhere near... so we could temporarily reduce far more the army and give loyal reservists such as myself a break because we have better things to do than wasting a whole day just to fire 10 shots... if any But this is not done because some politicians have to eat from the commissions they get from arm sales and of course most Cypriots as you see are against this... so no party wants to do something that most people don't support.

[Paphitis]

Atheist, the funding of the CNG is already reduced... we can't totally disband the army because that would be a message of surrender. Our army has more of a symbolic meaning. It says "We don't give up and if we ever get the chance we will use force to get back what is ours". Of course that chance doesn't seem to be anywhere near... so we could temporarily reduce far more the army and give loyal reservists such as myself a break because we have better things to do than wasting a whole day just to fire 10 shots... if any But this is not done because some politicians have to eat from the commissions they get from arm sales and of course most Cypriots as you see are against this... so no party wants to do something that most people don't support.

Sotos,

can you provide a brief snap shot of what your training or National Service was like?

[Atheist]

And one more point Nikitas. If the Turks wanted to take the whole Cyprus militarily disregarding any international political consequences, and what was stopping them was just CNG, then why wouldn't they agree to any solution we want as long as Cyprus is demilitarized (which is something we already agreed) and then come the next day and occupy the whole Cyprus?

Occupying an entire country is not an easy thing to accomplish for any power. not even the USA can accomplish this with complete security and we are talking about a superpower here.

I actually believe that this would have played into our hands somewhat, because Cypriots would have just organized themselves into a Guerrilla outfit and that is something that is very difficult to combat as a conventional army. Cypriots have done this before.

All of a sudden, Turkey has an eternal war on its hands that is never ending. The International Community would be forced into action, at least at a diplomatic level.

There would be so much pressure on Turkey for a resolution.

That is the case with Israel/Palestine. Neither Turkey wants such problem and of course neither we want to become Palestinians.

[Atheist]

Atheist, the funding of the CNG is already reduced... we can't totally disband the army because that would be a message of surrender. Our army has more of a symbolic meaning. It says "We don't give up and if we ever get the chance we will use force to get back what is ours". Of course that chance doesn't seem to be anywhere near... so we could temporarily reduce far more the army and give loyal reservists such as myself a break because we have better things to do than wasting a whole day just to fire 10 shots... if any But this is not done because some politicians have to eat from the commissions they get from arm sales and of course most Cypriots as you see are against this... so no party wants to do something that most people don't support.

Note that in my proposal I wrote "Significantly reduce the army" and not "disband the army".

[Paphitis]

And one more point Nikitas. If the Turks wanted to take the whole Cyprus militarily disregarding any international political consequences, and what was stopping them was just CNG, then why wouldn't they agree to any solution we want as long as Cyprus is demilitarized (which is something we already agreed) and then come the next day and occupy the whole Cyprus?

Occupying an entire country is not an easy thing to accomplish for any power. not even the USA can accomplish this with complete security and we are talking about a superpower here.

I actually believe that this would have played into our hands somewhat, because Cypriots would have just organized themselves into a Guerrilla outfit and that is something that is very difficult to combat as a conventional army. Cypriots have done this before.

All of a sudden, Turkey has an eternal war on its hands that is never ending. The International Community would be forced into action, at least at a diplomatic level.

There would be so much pressure on Turkey for a resolution.

That is the case with Israel/Palestine. Neither Turkey wants such problem and of course neither we want to become Palestinians.

If they occupy the entire country what else are you going to do?

Either you will leave or you will fight. And if you don't want to be "like a Palestinian" thousands of others won't see it your way and we end up with another EOKA.

[Paphitis]

Atheist, the funding of the CNG is already reduced... we can't totally disband the army because that would be a message of surrender. Our army has more of a symbolic meaning. It says "We don't give up and if we ever get the chance we will use force to get back what is ours". Of course that chance doesn't seem to be anywhere near... so we could temporarily reduce far more the army and give loyal reservists such as myself a break because we have better things to do than wasting a whole day just to fire 10 shots... if any But this is not done because some politicians have to eat from the commissions they get from arm sales and of course most Cypriots as you see are against this... so no party wants to do something that most people don't support.

Note that in my proposal I wrote "Significantly reduce the army" and not "disband the army".

How are you going to reduce the army?

Either everyone does National Service or no one.

If you ask me, it should be expanded to include females. It works every where else and Israel is very proud of its women in the IDF.

Now envisage a CNG that is double its current size.