Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

I do not think this is what Birkibrisli means in a literal sense. It is a figurative remark. What he is trying to say is that our Turkishness or our Greekness, as well as our Cypriotness (yes there is also this one) are merely cultural orientations and should not be confused with our national (citizenship) identity. Our acceptance of being Cypriot nationals (citizens) and our equal love for Cyprus are the unifying factors which surface above our cultural backgrounds or inclinations. Think of the example of the USA! It is a mosaic of numerous cultural backgrounds and "ethnic" origins. Yet, they all feel as American nationals (citizens,) they are all proud of it, participate in sports under the American flag and they even fight next to each other in wars. You see Greek-Americans, Irish-Americans, Black-Americans, Cuban-Americans, Chinese-Americans, etc, ect, to all unite under one flag, the US flag. However, all these people, if you go down to their community, neighbourhood and private life level, they do not deny their cultural backgrounds, roots, customs and /or languages, and they are equally proud of them. The Greek-Americans have no less of Greekness in their consciousness, than the Greeks living in mainland Greece, etc, etc. No one prohibits them for being who they are. In fact this is the richness and beauty of their country -the US, namelly a multicultural society /country!

[Eric dayi]

Fine in theory, impossible in practice.

Exactly.

Every state is prepared to do whatever it takes to safeguard its territorial integrity, even to violate the human rights of its own citizens. The RoC will not hesitate to violate the human rights of TCs if it feels threatened again, and this will certainly happen sometime in the future.

As they have been doing since 1963.

Without doing what Turkey does to the kurds, what Greece does to the slavs, and what Bulgaria did to us, the RoC will not be able to function as one integral state.

Definitly not. The Greeks have already told us that and are still saying the same.

It will either face another disintegration into a similar form as today with more bloodshed and loss of human life,

This is why I am in favour of partioning.

or it will be fully united where TCs will voluntarily abandon their own culture.

As we know for sure, some are prepared to go down that path but I know for a fact that most will not so where does that leave Cyprus? In bloodshed, murders and attrocities and possibly a war between Turkey and Greece. But hey, I am just an "ultra nationalist", what do I know?

[Kifeas]

Fine in theory, impossible in practice.

Exactly.

Every state is prepared to do whatever it takes to safeguard its territorial integrity, even to violate the human rights of its own citizens. The RoC will not hesitate to violate the human rights of TCs if it feels threatened again, and this will certainly happen sometime in the future.

As they have been doing since 1963.

Without doing what Turkey does to the kurds, what Greece does to the slavs, and what Bulgaria did to us, the RoC will not be able to function as one integral state.

Definitly not. The Greeks have already told us that and are still saying the same.

It will either face another disintegration into a similar form as today with more bloodshed and loss of human life,

This is why I am in favour of partioning.

or it will be fully united where TCs will voluntarily abandon their own culture.

As we know for sure, some are prepared to go down that path but I know for a fact that most will not so where does that leave Cyprus? In bloodshed, murders and attrocities and possibly a war between Turkey and Greece. But hey, I am just an "ultra nationalist", what do I know?

And this is why I should have never bothered attempting to have a discussion with such a scum like you in the first place!

However, you are deemed and destined to loose this battle! Partition will remain a dream to you, like enosis remained a dream to some GCs! You are simply fighting a loosing battle! Looser!

[bg_turk]

Yet, they all feel as American nationals (citizens,) they are all proud of it, participate in sports under the American flag and they even fight next to each other in wars. You see Greek-Americans, Irish-Americans, Black-Americans, Cuban-Americans, Chinese-Americans, etc, ect, to all unite under one flag, the US flag. However, all these people, if you go down to their community, neighbourhood and private life level, they do deny their cultural backgrounds and /or languages and they are equally proud of them. The Greek-Americans have no less of Greekness in their consciousness, than the Greeks living in mainland Greece, etc, etc.

Great example. But there is one crucial difference between the USA and Cyprus. America is the country of settlers, where everyone was a foreigner, a country that has wiped out the indigenous population of those lands. The american type of a multiethnic society did not happen over night, it was the result of a gradual evolution, a painful process which included the eradication of the entire indigenous population and the slavery of African Americans.
To think that Cyprus will reach where America is today just overnight is a really naive assumption.
Besides I wonder why did you have to go as far as the USA. Why dont you give us an example of a successful multiethnic society closer to Cyprus? Maybe Yugoslavia, Iraq, Lebanon, Russian Federation (Checnya), Israel-Palestine would be more applicable in the case of Cyprus, dont you think?

[I DO NOT FORGET 1974 -B]

And this is why I should have never bothered attempting to have a discussion with such a scum like you in the first place!

However, you are deemed and destined to loose this battle! Partition will remain a dream to you, like enosis remained a dream to some GCs! You are simply fighting a loosing battle! Looser!

Well said Kifeas! You shouldn’t talk to this Looser!

Hi Eric !!!!!!

Edited by Admin
Do not repost the same image several times.

[Eric dayi]

I do not think this is what Birkibrisli means in a literal sense. It is a figurative remark. What he is trying to say is that our Turkishness or our Greekness, as well as our Cypriotness (yes there is also this one) are merely cultural orientations and should not be confused with our national (citizenship) identity. Our acceptance of being Cypriot nationals (citizens) and our equal love for Cyprus are the unifying factors which surface above our cultural backgrounds or inclinations. Think of the example of the USA! It is a mosaic of numerous cultural backgrounds and "ethnic" origins. Yet, they all feel as American nationals (citizens,) they are all proud of it, participate in sports under the American flag and they even fight next to each other in wars. You see Greek-Americans, Irish-Americans, Black-Americans, Cuban-Americans, Chinese-Americans, etc, ect, to all unite under one flag, the US flag. However, all these people, if you go down to their community, neighbourhood and private life level, they do not deny their cultural backgrounds, roots, customs and /or languages, and they are equally proud of them. The Greek-Americans have no less of Greekness in their consciousness, than the Greeks living in mainland Greece, etc, etc. No one prohibits them for being who they are. In fact this is the richness and beauty of their country -the US, namelly a multicultural society /country!

Kiefeas, I got the feeling t hat you do not understand what Birkibrisli wrote or want ot understand. Maybe you do understand but you are agreeing with him because you maybe you want me to say what you like to hear.

I know what a "Cypriot" is, I am one remember? But I am a Turkish Cypriot and unlike Birkibrisli I do not want to "abandon" my Turkishnes. I am as proud of my Turkishness as you are of your Greekness.

I do not want to be just a Muslim in a Greek dominated country like the Turks in Greece without the right to call myself a Turk.

If the Cyprus Constitution kept as it was when it was signed and the GC's didn't try to change it by force I would have been very happy to live side by side with the GC's. But it was not to be because the GC's got gready and wanted ENOSIS and turn us Turks in to a minority in our own country. If the G's and GC's manages to get their ENOSIS our (TC's) fate would have been no different to the Turks in Greece.

[Kifeas]

Yet, they all feel as American nationals (citizens,) they are all proud of it, participate in sports under the American flag and they even fight next to each other in wars. You see Greek-Americans, Irish-Americans, Black-Americans, Cuban-Americans, Chinese-Americans, etc, ect, to all unite under one flag, the US flag. However, all these people, if you go down to their community, neighbourhood and private life level, they do deny their cultural backgrounds and /or languages and they are equally proud of them. The Greek-Americans have no less of Greekness in their consciousness, than the Greeks living in mainland Greece, etc, etc.

Great example. But there is one crucial difference between the USA and Cyprus. America is the country of settlers, .... ................ ....

Crap, a lame excuse, not a sound argument, my friend! We heard it many times before! Find something else!

[Eric dayi]

Fine in theory, impossible in practice.

Exactly.

Every state is prepared to do whatever it takes to safeguard its territorial integrity, even to violate the human rights of its own citizens. The RoC will not hesitate to violate the human rights of TCs if it feels threatened again, and this will certainly happen sometime in the future.

As they have been doing since 1963.

Without doing what Turkey does to the kurds, what Greece does to the slavs, and what Bulgaria did to us, the RoC will not be able to function as one integral state.

Definitly not. The Greeks have already told us that and are still saying the same.

It will either face another disintegration into a similar form as today with more bloodshed and loss of human life,

This is why I am in favour of partioning.

or it will be fully united where TCs will voluntarily abandon their own culture.

As we know for sure, some are prepared to go down that path but I know for a fact that most will not so where does that leave Cyprus? In bloodshed, murders and attrocities and possibly a war between Turkey and Greece. But hey, I am just an "ultra nationalist", what do I know?

And this is why I should have never bothered attempting to have a discussion with such a scum like you in the first place!

However, you are deemed and destined to loose this battle! Partition will remain a dream to you, like enosis remained a dream to some GCs! You are simply fighting a loosing battle! Looser!

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA....am I really "deemed tand destined to lose this battle"? Although I am against Talat's "unification" even he doesn't want a "unification" like some of you are suggesting in this forum. That is because he also knows what will happen in the future as does TPaps. I recon the deal has been done because Tpaps wants "unification" as much as I do.

Oh well, I'll keep on dreaming while you have nightmares.

[I DO NOT FORGET 1974 -B]

Kiefeas, I got the feeling ...............
....................
......................
........................
..............the Turks in Greece.

Hi Eric!!!!!!

Hi Loser!!!!

You will not have your partition Eric!!!
Finished! You lost the battle as Kifeas very well said to you!!!
You and your friend Denktash!!! You are both losers!!!

Buy Eric!!!
HAHAHAHAHA AHAHAhaha AHahahaha

[bg_turk]

Crap, a lame excuse, not a sound argument, my friend! We heard it many times before! Find something else!

Sometimes very good theories are thrown into the waste bin because they contradict empirical evidence.

Your theory about everybody living in harmony, respecting each others ethnic difference, sound like a very nice theory, I like it too, but it is not supported by any empirical evidence at all.

You may theorize all you wish, but this does not change the fact that the outcome of your arguments are an utopian society completely detached from the realities of the Balkans and the Middle Eastern Region. Your theory might look excellent, but there will always be some tiny detail that will ruin it.

On the other hand, my arguments may look crappy to you but they are supported by evidence. And empirical evidence shows very clearly that multiethnic socieites are only temporary, they either end up in homogenous societies where ethnic difference are evened out, or they end up in disintegration. Even in you example of the USA, black americans have lost their original language and culture, and are integrated into the mainstream american culture. Were it not for their skin color and thick accent, they would be virtually indistinguishable. That is how TCs will end up if your theory comes true.