Cyprus-Forum.com

[Simon]

Zan I have won my arguments with you hands down.

Secondly, that was not a bullet hole in the foot, because I wasn't personal with anybody was I? Think about it.............

Third, I think the military junta and EOKA are in the past don't you. Greece and Cyprus are members of the EU now and have to comply with Human Rights. There is your assurances.

I argue much better than you mate.

[zan]

Never Mind ENOSIS you are already living in your own world. I would not pat my self on the back just yet.

I think when you spit out Turk the way you do even in a court of law that would be a personal remark. MATE.

You come here screaming about the virtues of ENOSIS and then say EOKA is in the past. Law degree my asp.

And the EU is to be my sanctuary. Give me a break. Have you read all the wrong doings of a corrupt and disorganised government that call themselves the RoC? All you do in your arguments is contradict what I say with not a scratch of proof. Can’t be bothered? Then why write at all.

THE TURKISH Cypriot elementary school teachers' union and the union of Turkish Cypriot professors yesterday lodged an appeal at the Supreme Court in Cyprus against the Minister of Education and the cabinet over Turkish Cypriots' right to education.

The case has been set for a hearing on February 9, 2006.

The Turkish Cypriot unions question the government’s decision to create a special class at the 18th Elementary School in Limassol.

The government say this cannot be done as the cabinet of ministers is not as laid down in the 1960 constitution with seven Greek Cypriot ministers and three Turkish Cypriot ministers.

There’s your EU human rights policy. Everything has to be won in the courts. If you don’t shout loud enough you get nothing.

[cypezokyli]

kalinyhta
iyi geceler

simon

[Kifeas]

Simon, you seem to be a very confused individual. I am very surprised that someone claiming to be a law graduate, cannot even have a structural way of thinking, something which should have been the number one determinant of his ability to practice his job, and not how many books had read or how many laws has memorized.

You are mixing up totally unrelated issues my friend.
1. Do you want enosis because you believe this should be your moral and legitimate right as a Greek Cypriot, or because the Annan plan was in fact no good? You have to make up your mind on this issue.
2. You did not like the Annan plan because it was not fair and balanced to one of the two communities -the GC one, or because it did not incorporate enosis as a future option? You also have to make up your mind on this.

Make up your mind and give me an answer to the above two questions.

.And finally Kifeas, you might have become detached from your Greek roots, when you say you have no motherland but Cyprus, but a lot of people have not.

Simon, I bet you have absolutely no idea what it means to be a Greek and what defines Greekness in general. I would like to ask you to give me your definition of what it means to you, in just one or two short paragraphs. I am sure you are somehow being messed up on this whole thing, but I will be waiting to see the evidence first.

[Piratis]

This question is for Simon and Zan:
Would you accept one independent Cyprus were the human rights of everybody are respected, with no racial discrimination, were every person has one vote no matter of his race and were the TC minority will have guaranteed proportionate representation at all levels, Turkish as an official language, and full control over their own religion, culture and education?

Would you be willing to sacrifice your dreams (whatever those are) for the above, which is something that exists in all other EU countries?

Please answer clearly.

[zan]

I will think and prepare a proper detailed answer to your question but first, I have a question to all.

If the government were to be a fifty/fifty split what parts of the democratic process will be at risk. Where, when voting for the entire island, would either side get an advantage over the other? If, for instance, taxation were to be changed it would effect both.

I am very tired tonight and cant think straight so I would like some input. Thank you.

[TheCabbie]

At least I admit that I don't know, whilst you seem to be convinced you know the likely course history would have taken.

Fair points Alexis, of course nobody "knows", but I've read as much I can find about both Greece, Cyprus and the Balkans in general from the period from 1878-1945 and think my premise is way above 50/50 that the British rule gave the Cypriots a chance for self government.

Militarily, Cyprus is too important to the Turks to allow a potentially hostile nation to control it, proof of this importance can be seen in the way the Acheson planwas put together.

When the first British administrator came to Cyprus he refused ti raise taxes for the Turks as he was supposed to, saying that "Cyprus is the poorest place in the British Empire" bearing in mind the countries then under British rule, things must have been pretty bad.
My main point was that the British rule of Cyprus wasn't the terrible thing it's often been made to be. On this point we seem to roughly agree in principle, although not to what extent.

[Simon]

Firstly, how do you know how I say the word Turk? Are you a psychic now? How can saying the word Turk be personal? Grow up.

Secondly, wanting enosis and being a part in EOKA are two totally separate things. Just because EOKA wanted enosis, it does not mean that every person today who wants enosis would do what EOKA did. Got it?

Thirdly, I think the Human Rights record of the EU somehow beats Turkey's don't you? You make me laugh, look at the way Turkey treats the Kurds and the Armenians and then you can talk to me about Human Rights. It is a human right to appeal against a decision of the Court. That is what is happening isn't it?

Tell me what part of what I say you want proof for? Are you saying 78% of Cyprus' population is not Greek? Do you want proof? You have not given me any sort of constructive argument at all. I asked you, why, for a population of 18%, do Turkey want closer to a 50:50 share. Your answer was complete nonsense. In 1974, Greece had a military junta at the helm. That is never going to happen again now Greece is a part of the EU, as one of the requirements for the EU is to be a democracy. Anyway, I'm sure if anything untoward did go on, Turkish troops would be back in Cyprus like a shot.

Kifeas, let me clear the issues up because you seem confused. I want enosis because I believe it is a moral and legitimate right as a Greek Cypriot.

On top of this, if the best the UN can offer is the Annan plan, the island WILL NEVER be unified as an independent nation as you want it to be. While I want enosis, I would accept a power-sharing agreement, but on a 80:20 basis in favour of the Greek side, as this is most proportionate to the populations of the two communities. Yes, on Number 2, it was not balanced and fair to the Greek Cypriot side. It was totally disproportionate to the population in Cyprus.

Kifeas, I know in my heart what it means to be Greek. I'm not going to discuss that now, because it is a separate issue. However, the fact that you say Greece is not the motherland of Greek Cypriots, I interpret as meaning you are detaching Greece and calling yourself merely a Cypriot. Therefore detaching yourself from your Greek roots.

Finally, Piratis, I would accept exactly what you propose. However, the proportional representation would have to be 80:20 in GC favour, for it to be proportionate. This is something the TCs will not accept. WHY?

[zan]

OK Simon, you have given me proof. 78% of people living on Cyprus are Greek. Sorry to have ever doubted you.

Did any body get anything else from that long post?

I think that maybe I am psychic though because I have a feeling I know what he is going to say to me next.

[Piratis]

If the government were to be a fifty/fifty split what parts of the democratic process will be at risk. Where, when voting for the entire island, would either side get an advantage over the other? If, for instance, taxation were to be changed it would effect both.

Who is the best leader ever existed that is accepted by both communities as such? Lets say Ghandi (or whomever). Lets say we could have Gandhi as a King. Wouldn't that be great? Even if it was, one thing is for sure: It would not be democracy.

50:50 power, when the population ratio is 18:82 means that each Turkish Cypriot would have 4.5 more voting power than each Greek Cypriot.
This is something undemocratic that exists in no country. In some countries people might receive different voting power in some occasions depending on where they live (but all people are allowed to freely move and live anywhere within the country), but in no case based on their race. Such thing is undemocratic and racist.

Our vote is the only thing we have to control power. Everybody should be equal for this. If one person is given more voting power than others, then this person (or group) will have disproportionately more influence.

If TCs believe that they deserve 30% of land and 50% of power, what will stop them to use this power to demand 30%-40%-50% of everything else? (budget money for example).