Cyprus-Forum.com

[Simon]

O my god I have heard it all know. You people are the most ignorant people I have ever had the displeasure of talking to.

CYPRUS IS AN INDEPENDENT NATION. WHAT PLANET ARE YOU LIVING ON? Cyprus has been everything but independent. If it isn't Britain interfering, it's the USA, Turkey, Greece. INDEPENDENT LOL. And you say I talk shit.

I am a qualified Law graduate (so I think I have read a few books) and I know the TRUTH. That is what you people do not like. Also, I notice that you people get personal, I shall rise above this typical standard that the Turks resort to.

You people can keep talking about two communities living there etc etc. I have not denied that once.

WHY IS IT SO UNREASONABLE TO ASK THAT A 78% POPULATION MAJORITY BECOME UNITED WITH THEIR MOTHER COUNTRY. WHY IS THAT SO INCONCEIVABLE? HOW CAN 18% HAVE RIGHTS ABOVE THE 78%. BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT TURKEY ARE DEMANDING. AGAIN I HERE ENOSIS IN 2005 IS RIDICULOUS. WHY??????? IT IS COLONISATION IN 2005 THAT IS RIDICULOUS, NOT ENOSIS.

Why hasn't nobody commented on my suggestion of a 80:20 split on power sharing then? Isn't this the fairest way of doing things according to proportional representation. Why do Turkey wan't more. CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN?

[Kifeas]

What else could someone say for a GC who talks about Enosis in year 2005?

Why not? When we talk with sense and all we ask for is nothing more than our human, legal and democratic rights they expect that the very sensible things we ask for should be balanced with their outrageous illegal demands for racist discrimination, separation and whatever else they think they can force on us.

I do not think the answer to balancing out “their outrageous illegal demands for racist discrimination, separation and whatever else they think they can force on us,” as you described them, can be given by expressing equally outrageous demands such as enosis. The answer to all those that you named above, is already being given to them and to Turkey, by the international community, every passing single day that they remain an outcast of the international community (their political entity,) and the fact that already in Turkey they are in such a panic that they do not know how to handle the situation and determine their next steps. They are facing thousand of law suits in the international courts, their EU accession is hanging in the air, and they remain isolated in the north as a community, having all the international law against them in every possible way. What else could possibly be worst to them if we also start preaching about enosis, which we and they know that is not feasible and something that we really want? Just because they are living their own illusions, it doesn’t mean that we also have to start cultivating our own illusions. Furthermore, it wouldn’t be a helpful thing to do to those healthy forces and people in the north who understand the bankruptcy of Denktash’s and Turkey’s illegal politics and policies of the past 40 years and who are genuinely trying to bring about the necessary changes, both among the TCs and in Turkey.

[Piratis]

CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN?

Sure. They want more because they think they can get more. What is fair is irrelevant. It is obvious that what they are asking for their 18% minority is unfair since such thing exist in no other part of the world.

The reason they are asking for it is because they believe they can get it. It is our job to make sure they don't. Only this way they will sooner or later realize that the way we abandoned our maximum demands and are willing to settle for something that simply respects our human and democratic rights, they should also abandon their outrageous demands and accept something that while not being their dream, it will not limit their human rights in any way and they will be equal EU citizens in one united Cyprus, as it was the agreement in 1960.

[Piratis]

Kefeas, the problem is that for some people the solution = the middle. Some people even think that objectiveness = the middle. So by asking some very sensible things and them asking their outrageous illegal demands we have many people believing that the solution should be something in the middle of these two!

Even GC members of this forum fall in this trap and they see anybody supporting that compromises can not be made on principles like human rights and democracy, as an extremist!!!!! Can you imagine?? Human rights and democracy are considered extreme things!!!

If we had more people supporting Enosis and the GC maximum demands, then I believe it would be easier for those people to see that what we support is in fact what is moderate and fair.

[Simon]

Why does Turkey still have their outragous demands from 1950s? Therefore, why should Greeks give up their 1950s hope?

You Turks seem to me that you want everything your own way. You are looking for a weakness and expoiting it to get what you can. It is the Greeks that have negotiated and the Turks have just taken.

Piratis is right, and I have said it previously. TC should never have more than a 20% representation in the new Parliament AND IF THEY DO THE WORLD IS LEGITIMISING UNLAWFUL INVASION. Plus, it means that Turkey's position of 1950 prevails, and Greece's 1950 position is just held as ridiculous. I still don't see why that is considering 78% of the people are Greek in Cyprus? I KEEP HEARING IT IS RIDICULOUS, WHY? REMEMBER THE TCs ARE THE MINORITY.

[Kifeas]

O my god I have heard it all know. You people are the most ignorant people I have ever had the displeasure of talking to.

CYPRUS IS AN INDEPENDENT NATION. WHAT PLANET ARE YOU LIVING ON? Cyprus has been everything but independent. If it isn't Britain interfering, it's the USA, Turkey, Greece. INDEPENDENT LOL. And you say I talk shit.

I am a qualified Law graduate (so I think I have read a few books) and I know the TRUTH. That is what you people do not like. Also, I notice that you people get personal, I shall rise above this typical standard that the Turks resort to.

You people can keep talking about two communities living there etc etc. I have not denied that once.

WHY IS IT SO UNREASONABLE TO ASK THAT A 78% POPULATION MAJORITY BECOME UNITED WITH THEIR MOTHER COUNTRY. WHY IS THAT SO INCONCEIVABLE? HOW CAN 18% HAVE RIGHTS ABOVE THE 78%. BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT TURKEY ARE DEMANDING. AGAIN I HERE ENOSIS IN 2005 IS RIDICULOUS. WHY??????? IT IS COLONISATION IN 2005 THAT IS RIDICULOUS, NOT ENOSIS.

Why hasn't nobody commented on my suggestion of a 80:20 split on power sharing then? Isn't this the fairest way of doing things according to proportional representation. Why do Turkey wan't more. CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN?

Simon, first of all I do not have any other motherland that Cyprus. It is about time this motherland crap that you and a number of fools in Cyprus that still chew this nonsense, stop doing it. If you had two cents of brain -and the fact that you are a law graduate doesn't automatically qualify you to be such, you should have known that the issue of enosis is being buried long time ago, both as a political objective and from a legal aspect, since Cyprus became a member of the EU. Unless you want to tell me that you suggest we pull out of the EU, loose our own exclusive privileges and status as a separate and equal member with the other 24 members, and then unite with Greece and join the EU as a province of Greece. Stop the crap and the nonsense! There is not political party in Cyprus or even an association that has such an agenda, simply because it is totally unfeasible and useless.

You have to make up your mind as to what you want Cyprus to become, and then stick to it. Either you want Enosis, in which case it will only be an enosis of half of Cyprus with Greece and the other half with Turkey, or you want a re-united independed and sovereign country. Just because the TCs say they want a 50:50 share so that they can agree to a re-united Cyprus, it doesn't mean that this is what we are going to give them. They might as well remain isolated and an outcast, like they are now, until they change their mind. In the meantime, Turkey will be seeing the EU's door only through a straw's hole and at the same time it will be paying the millions of pounds of compensation to the refugees for every year they do not have access to their properties.

[Simon]

Basically, it's like this. No Turk can justify why the TC wants a unjustified, disproportionate and unfair representation in the new Parliament.

Secondly, Turkey took what they wanted by force and still threatens war with Greece in the Aegean, by claiming the if Greece use their waters and airspace (legally I might add) then this is a casus beli (basis for war). So please you Turks, don't get the morale highground with me that you are all so against war and innocent.

The only reason enosis today sounds ridiculous is because too many Greeks have given up on it, thanks to propoganda by Turkey and USA. If more Greeks were resiliant and kept to their original views, then maybe we wouldn't be taken for mugs now, like we was with the Annan plan, which was absolutely ridiculous.

[Simon]

.And finally Kifeas, you might have become detached from your Greek roots, when you say you have no motherland but Cyprus, but a lot of people have not.

So what a few EU privileges, they'll be others by joining Greece. Cyprus did without these EU privileges before and can do so being supported by Greece. Even if Turkey was to then annex Northern Cyprus, only 20% should ever be allowed, due to their population, not the 37% that they now have.

Further, Turkey have never changed their minds or compromised on this issue. Nor will they.

My view is enosis. But if that is not the view of at least 70% of the island, (which I believe it is) but if it isn't, then it should be a 80:20 split on power-sharing and NO further compromises should be given.

[zan]

Simon

As a qualified Law graduate could you tell us what sort of pass marks you got on the ethics side of the exam?

I am also curious as to what score you got over all because your ability to argue stinks.

“Also, I notice that you people get personal, I shall rise above this typical standard that the Turks resort to.”

Is that a bullet hole in your foot?


“No Turk can justify why the TC wants a unjustified, disproportionate and unfair representation in the new Parliament.”

Yes we can if you go back to the ethics thing. After what happened with EOKA we want assurances. Some good will that we can use. In fifty years time it won’t matter because we will be Cypriots and the younger generation will pass by your house and laugh at the ridiculous old man waving a pointless flag.

[Simon]

Just one further thing Kifeas. You and I will always disagree because there is one fundamental disagreement between us to.

I don't differentiate a Greek from Crete, to a Greek from Rhodes, to a Greek from Cyprus, to a Greek from mainland Greece. They are all Greek to me and are all the same people. Therefore, I would rather enosis with a separated island, rather than accept a plan devised by the USA (called the Annan Plan) to give TCs disproportionate rights.

You have detached yourself from this. You see GC as merely Cypriots and therefore just want an independent republic. I am sorry that you have disowned the fact that your forefathers came from Greece. But that is up to you.