Cyprus-Forum.com

[Simon]

Well, cypezokyli do you think the two can share governance? I don't. Look at what happened in 1960. And the author says we are better off divided, better for who, the Turks?

If I said to you 78% of say, Kos was Turkish, the Turks would be over there in flash to take it. Do you think Greece would be able to occupy 37% of it? Not in a million years. I'm in favour of democracy. Therefore if 78% of any population votes in favour of something, it should be granted. This includes annexation to Greece. So lets give the whole of Cyprus a vote (excluding the illegal settlers, who moved to Cyprus after 1974) and lets see what happens.

[Viewpoint]

Open your eyes Simon, about time you woke up to the fact the this island belongs to both TCs and GCs and as long as we cannot negotiate a comprehensive solution it will remain divided.

Your narrow mindedness and lack of vision only serves one purpose and thats the current status quo, so you have no right to complain you have what you want.

[bg_turk]

A clear solution for me would be for Cyprus to be annexed with Greece, with a Treaty between Greece and Turkey, with Greece guaranteeing Turkish Cypriots rights as equals. There could be a mechanism, that for any breaches of Human Rights, the UN would automatically get involved.

I even have a better idea. The whole of the island should be annexed to Turkey, and there should be a mechanism monitored by the UN to guarantee the rights of the GCs minority in the Turkish Republic. How about that?

[Piratis]

Open your eyes Simon, about time you woke up to the fact the this island belongs to both TCs and GCs and as long as we cannot negotiate a comprehensive solution it will remain divided.

Yes, the island, thewhole island, belongs to both TCs and GCs. You want to make one part a Turkish part ("TRNC", TC state etc).

Why should any part of Cyprus be Turkish if it belongs to both GCs and TCs and especially when GCs are the majority of all parts?

Why, when you are the minority, do not accept Cyprus to be Greek, and you expect the GCs of Kerinia and the villages of north Cyprus, who are the majority, to accept that their land will be part of a Turkish state?

The island will remain divided as long as you have the power to keep it in that way.

We already have an agreement, which is the only legal thing that exists, and until a new agreement is made the only existing agreement should be respected. If you do not respect that agreement then your actions will remain illegal.

What you say is this: "Until you agree to what we want we will take what we want by force." What kind of negotiations can we have with you then? The only thing you understand is the use of force and nothing else.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis we have been over this before and we are just going around in circles I have stated before that we shoudl agree to disagree.

but i will answer you once again seeing that you are having grat difficulty understanding my viewpoint;

Yes, the island, thewhole island, belongs to both TCs and GCs. You want to make one part a Turkish part ("TRNC", TC state etc).

We voted YES isnt this an indication what we want please dont go into the contents the concept was a comprehensive solution.
The TRNC is the result of the mess we made prior to 1974 and the continued stalemate of not being able to agree a solution, why cant you understand this, its not that difficult.

Why should any part of Cyprus be Turkish if it belongs to both GCs and TCs and especially when GCs are the majority of all parts?

As we both own Cyprus for now you have the south and we have the north, if a time comes when we can compromise and agree that we can live together under a set of laws that will ensure we do not return to the past mess then we can come together as one island. It takes 2 tango we need each other to resolve the Cyprus issue.

Why, when you are the minority, do not accept Cyprus to be Greek, and you expect the GCs of Kerinia and the villages of north Cyprus, who are the majority, to accept that their land will be part of a Turkish state?

They dont have to return they can oopt for compensation and remain in the Greek state. Everything changed in 1974 you cant turn the clock back you have to come to terms with that it will never be the same again.

The island will remain divided as long as you have the power to keep it in that way.

And you admantly maintain your current stance which will cause continuation of division. You really have to reconsider your viewpoint as long as you persist with your hardline approach which imo has a lot of vengence behind it you will not be able to persuade TCs you are right.

We already have an agreement, which is the only legal thing that exists, and until a new agreement is made the only existing agreement should be respected. If you do not respect that agreement then your actions will remain illegal.

It is these agreements that you yourself have said many times gave TCs to much and was why the Akritas plan appeared, we had all the problems because you didnt want these agreements whats changed now?, whats to say we return to 1960 agreements and GC still insist on revised Akritas/Tassos plan forced on us via the EU, its just to risky we need to know up front what we are getting into.

What you say is this: "Until you agree to what we want we will take what we want by force." What kind of negotiations can we have with you then? The only thing you understand is the use of force and nothing else.

Piraits I have to remind you that you lost a war, the reasons for this we all know. If you really want a united Cyprus where we can all live and prosper together without fear of domination of one community over the other as equal partners then you have negotiate for it.

[zan]

Piratis and Piratis mark 2 (Simon)

Both of you refuse to read all the links that I provide as proof and you only say what you believe to be true. You have no idea how to argue constructively.

Common sense I came here for a good argument.

Piratis No you didn’t. You came here for an argument.

Common sense Well, argument is not the same as a contradiction.

Piratis It can be.

Common sense No it can’t! An arguments a collected series of statements to establish a definite proposition.

Piratis No it isn’t.

Common sense Yes it is, it isn’t just contradiction.

Piratis Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.

Common sense But it isn’t just saying, “no it isn’t”.

Piratis Yes it is.

Common sense It isn’t. Arguments an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of anything the other person says.

Piratis No it isn’t.

Common sense Yes it is!

Piratis Not at all.

[cypezokyli]

If I said to you 78% of say, Kos was Turkish, the Turks would be over there in flash to take it. Do you think Greece would be able to occupy 37% of it? Not in a million years. I'm in favour of democracy. Therefore if 78% of any population votes in favour of something, it should be granted. This includes annexation to Greece. So lets give the whole of Cyprus a vote (excluding the illegal settlers, who moved to Cyprus after 1974) and lets see what happens. Wink

simon...dia onoman tou theou!!!

i am not sure if you are listening to yourself!!!
this idea is flawd it doesnt matter from which point you look at it.

i dont know if you really understand the impossibility of what you are asking. i cannot even take it as a joke.
i mean we listen from time to time all kinds of extreme proposals...but this...

let my just give you some points.
we gave up on enosis, legally in 1960. as a dream, some of us in 63, and the last ones, the rightwing extremists in 1974 after their actions have divided the island. so ...historically, knowing what that aspiration has lead this island to, and how much pain it caused you should think about it twice before you even consider to propose union with greece.

we are an independant island , made from two communities, the faster you realise that and accept it the better.

not mention that that would be unacceptable in the UN and the EU, (if u care what they say and represent)

not to mention that the gc dont want to be united with greece anymore. the most extreme gc position is by a party that gets a mere 3%, and demands...return to the 1960 constitution...NOT UNION.

but lets accept it for a moment, as a science fiction scenario that all the above do not hold. could you give me one (not two, just one) possible reason why the tc would ever accept such a vote? or how you are going to "convince" them to accept such a vote?

on a previous post, i asked you to adapt to the 21st century. now i am afraid you first have to come down to reality. honestly, what you propose is outside the sphere of the cyprus problem, not to mention ouside he sphere of imagination

do you understand that such proposals are just steps towards partition?

[TheCabbie]

Never say never! In 1964, with the Achenson plan, Turkey came too close to accepting Cyprus to Unite with Greece, in exchange of a base that would have included the Karpasia Peninsula and some form of autonomy for the TCs in the areas around Cyprus in which they were the most populous. This plan /proposal failed only because Makarios rejected it.

It seems to me as though we've got a version of the Acheson Plan 1 (rejected by Greece), whether we like it or not!

[BirKibrisli]

Let me ask a simple question to the person who believes Cyprus should be annexed to Greece (Enosis under another name).Assuming that it happened,and all the TCs decided to move to Turkey,and Cyprus became a purely GC nation,would you be sleeping any easier at night if you lived in Cyprus?Knowing that the wrath of 70 million Turks would be upon you?
I wish people made sure their brain was in gear before they opened their mouth.

[RAFAELLA]

If the UN could be trusted then I am sure more progress could be made.

You and I both know what a load of utter rubbish that is. That is an excuse for breaking international law? Pathetic.

....but they supported UN-Anan plan

A clear solution for me would be for Cyprus to be annexed with Greece

Simon; Cyprus doesn't need to be annexed with Greece, it's an independent state.
People wanted to unite with GR when they were under British rule and since there were no proposals, plans etc for independency then.
Our sole aim now should be finding a solution to the 31 year old problem and get rid all foreign powers from our land.