Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

So you support that social interraction is not associated with a solution....

Going as tourist by showing your passport is acceptance of a separate country on our island. The only "solution" that this promotes is partition.

Three centuries and you’re still there as a majority. As soon as the Greeks got hold of Cyprus they tried to clear us from the island.

So by how much did your population decrease between 1963 and 1974?? The ones that tried to clear us from the island are the Turks. First they tried to turn everybody into a muslim, they achieved it with some (the "Turkish" Cypriots), and then they ethnically cleansed 200.000 Greek Cypriots from their own land.

Your government Taxes, rules, legislates, punishes and tolerates you, why not accuse them of slavery.

Because we choose our government. It is made up by Cypriots, not by foreigners that are here to exploit us.

You also keep having a go at me “copy and pasting”. You sound as desperate as Source does sometimes. I just happen to believe that people are more likely to believe what press was writing at the time and historians rather than me spouting of rubbish personal views like you seem to do. You should try it some time, you might just learn a bit more about realities.

You copy paste the same old propaganda found in propaganda sites. If you quote part of an article or a document you only quote the part that suits you. If I asked you what the rest of the article said you wouldn't have a clue.

how can you accuse that person of having stolen sth if he also lost his ? what do you expect from him to do in the meantime?

DO you at least ask them: Do you support the full respect of the human rights of all Cypriots and the end of the illegal Turkish occupation and the pseudo "TRNC"?
He could of course lie, but do you even bother asking?

Their fault is that most of them support the violation of our human rights. How many TCs have you met that they don't want to gain on our loss? 1-2%?

[Alexios]

I show my passport when i go to stay at a hotel in the south...The Paphians will be really happy according to your thinking..they always wanted to be a separate country....

[BirKibrisli]

Cypezokyli komshu!

The answer to your question about Sevgul Uludag (excuse my english letters,I am away from home!)is ,as Bananiot said,she is a remarkable journalist who is fearless about her desire to reunite our contry.She writes for Yeniduzen,and specialises in feature articles/interviews highlighting the injustices suffered by both communities.I believe she has a recent book out,a collection of her interviews on missing persons and people killed for their love of Cyprus.I envy Bananiot if he knows her.She is amongst a handful of people I'd love to meet if I ever get to visit Cyprus.

It is disappointing to see that Piratis' attitute has not softened after all the discussions we've had about the need to improve the respect and trust between the communities if we are to find a solution in our lifetime.I have given up hope that anybody over 40 can change their attitutes towards the other side.But we must do everything possible to let the young mingle,so at least they might one day stop fearing and hating each other.
As Alexios said the amount GCs spend on the casino tables is probably mmore than the RoC government spends on TCs all together,and they are not going to stop unless someone closes the gates again,which I suspect is on the cards given the Lokmaci/footbridge catastrophy...
Viewpoint and I don't see eye to eye on many things but I agree with his/her argument that keeping the TCs totally dependent on Turkey economically is one of the fundamental reasons why they seemed to have abdicated any pretence to political will and power.It is at best a Phyrric victory,at worst it does nothing but solidify the Partition of Cyprus.It is high time we all reassessed this hardline attitute to intercommunal visits and cooperation.Please,Piratis...

[cypezokyli]

DO you at least ask them: Do you support the full respect of the human rights of all Cypriots and the end of the illegal Turkish occupation and the pseudo "TRNC"?
He could of course lie, but do you even bother asking?

if one starts a conversation, which implictily accuses the other person, then its a way of no-conversation. and the purpose is first to start discussing. and if we want to change the opinion of those who violate our rights, starting by accusing them will simply not work.

Their fault is that most of them support the violation of our human rights. How many TCs have you met that they don't want to gain on our loss? 1-2%?

why do you want to unite with such people then?

i have posted a personal experience some time ago...let me repeat it once again.
when the tc friend came to our house in limassol...well i was also testing my familys limits . when my mother left her village she a student. she couldnt possible ever have done sth against the tc in 63 or whatever. not to mention that attrocities and stupidities of that kind are manly "privilages" . anyway, when the "invador" came to my hause, my mother took him from the hand to show him a photo of her house that she had to abandon. i was kind of furious with my mother bc i thought at the point that she could practically blow everything in the air...in a way, she waited for so long... its just pain....its understandable....
in a way it was also stupid bc the guy was 23-24 so he was not even alive in 1974..
anyway the answer i expected was of the kind that the a number of tc express here as well : well ...1963 and EOKA and blabla. (which it can be a real argument , but
instead, he said : i grew up in kyrenia and i know that if someone forced me to leave now, it would hurt me a lot...

afterwards on our way to a trip, i tried to apologise if my mother brought himin a difficult situation. he just said : its ok re, no problem. i can understand. you cannot accuse people if they have suffered.
.......
only that , its more than enough to show my pass to go to the north and visit him. if you cannot understand that, theres nothing more i can say to you...

[Bananiot]

Yes, I had the pleasure of meeting Sevgul recently during a seminar on sex education, would you believe, in Nicosia, where she was a speaker. People like her fill me with hope that there is a future for Cyprus after all.

[Kifeas]

Viewpoint and I don't see eye to eye on many things but I agree with his/her argument that keeping the TCs totally dependent on Turkey economically is one of the fundamental reasons why they seemed to have abdicated any pretence to political will and power.It is at best a Phyrric victory,at worst it does nothing but solidify the Partition of Cyprus.

Birkibrisli, in no way it is of the intention or in the interest of the GC side to keep the TCs totally depended on Turkey. To the contrary, there are numerous examples which prove exactly the opposite. For example, many people are not aware of the fact that the 300 million dollars of the EU aid package to the TC community, which were initially assigned by the EU to be given to the north after a solution of the Cyprus problem, became available to the TC community -despite the fact that a solution was not agreed, as a result of a RoC proposal at the EU council’s summit of April 2004, right after the referendums.

However, just because the EU commission had made the mistake to also propose a direct trade regulation, which the RoC could not and cannot approve -as it will essentially equate with a de facto recognition of a separate entity in the north, and thus neither the EU council due to RoC objections, the Turkish and TC side -with the help of Britain- have managed to coupled them as a one package offer, resulting to an impossibility for the financial aid to be released as a separate offer. The RoC had proposed an alternative route so that the financial aid offer is de-coupled and become available to the TCs immediately and the direct trade issue to be combined with the return of Varoshia –a totally useless for the TCs area as it essentially remains a ghost town and which could facilitate the return of up to 30,000 GCs back to their homes and properties and the opening of the Famagusta harbour for direct trade for the TC under the control of the Famagusta municipality (GC and TC sections) instead of the “TRNC,” and a subsequent freezing on the illegal sales of GC properties in the north. This proposal, which was also adopted by the EU commission and which would essentially have offered to the TC community both the EU financial aid and the direct trade which it claims it is necessary for it develop economically and become more independed from Turkey, had been blatantly rejected both by Turkey and Talat. Why?

What is the so irrational with this proposal? Does the TC community want direct trade and the aid so that it breaks away from the economic domination of Turkey or not? I think it doesn’t want this to happen, neither Turkey does? Is it illogical for the GC side to ask for at least the return of Varoshia and the freezing of the illegal sale of GC properties in the north, in exchange of allowing the TC to have direct (because indirect relations with the EU they can have to a certain extent even now through the Limassol and Larnaka ports in the south and through the green line regulation) trade relations with the EU? Is it the case of “mine is mine and yours is also mine?” In view of what is happening during the last 2 1/2 years, since the opening of the “boarders,” it is the GC side that is trying to help so that the TCs become more independed economically from Turkey, the result is shown on the sky rocket development of the TC per capita income from 4.5 thousand dollars to almost 7.3 thousand, almost 40% increase within just 2 years, and it is the TC leadership and Turkey who are trying to find ways to maintain this economic dependency by Turkey rather than the GCs. Words /declarations /intentions mean nothing. What counts are actions taken and results produced! And actions and results speak by themselves as to who really wants the TCs to remain depended on Turkey economically and who doesn’t. I am sick and tired of hearing this rubbish fairytale argument from Viewpoint all the time, who also thinks that we are complete fools and we do not know or see what is happening.

[Viewpoint]

Try to see the broader picture, 279 million euros over a number of years is a pittence to what Turkey supports us with every year.
The EU offered this aid as a result of our YES to Annan 5 to which GCs said No, arent you contradicting yourself? your expecting us to believe that your leaders put forward a motion for us to receive aid for saying yes to a plan you so despise and have demonised from the outset.
The intentions of the GC leadership is so transparent that a child would refuse what they have placed on the table as bait to entice TCs into making the mistake of moving back to the 1960 agreements, the "normalisation" and "acceptence" of the "RoC" which for TCs ceased to exist in 1974. This will be something that GCs leadership will try to enforce on TCs via EU over the coming years but never forget we to have very strong allies that support the Annan plan as the solution to the Cyprus issue.

The suggestion of sharing Famagusta port is like saying whats ours is ours and whats yours you have to share but with a 70% 30 & split, surely if we are to share anything then we have to share all ports?? would Gcs be happy to share all ports?

We want what you have enjoyed for the past 31 years, the right to trade with the outside world on an even footage, your persistence to keep us economically hostage so that we do not lose the desire for a comprehensive solution is ridciulous as surely this would be apporpraite to yourselves, has your prosperity diminished your desire for a solution? (questionable) The reality is that your whole aim to is block us at every turn to ensure that we remain economically infereior and thus cave in to more of your demands, well think again because all the actions you have taken so far have had the oppositie effect and TCs are moving more and more away from wanting a united Cyprus. If you adopted a more positive attiude to working with TCs to strengthen the economy TCs would show more respect and flexiblity on issues which are sensative to GCs.

The fairytale is your dreaming that we are stupid and will run to the "RoC" for handouts, we have been seperate for many years and with no interest from the outside world just the support of Turkey and we have survived albeit to your disappointment but now things have changed and will continue to change, things will improve for us, it will not happen over night but over the coming years we are confident that the world will continue to see the injustice imposed on the north and face realities, thus taking the necessary steps to ensure we are no longer isolated and are treated just like the GC community from the south. So the ball is really firmly in the GC court as to how they wish to proceed as it is up to the side that said no to unification to find ways to move towards an agreement, if of course thats what they really desire.

[Piratis]

I show my passport when i go to stay at a hotel in the south...The Paphians will be really happy according to your thinking..they always wanted to be a separate country....

The hotel is a private property. Do they stop you when you enter in the Paphos district to ask for your passport?

It is disappointing to see that Piratis' attitute has not softened after all the discussions we've had about the need to improve the respect and trust between the communities if we are to find a solution in our lifetime.

Birkibrisli, I have done absolutely nothing against any Turkish Cypriot. What exactly should I improve? Accept human rights violations and illegality? I am just getting tired that some people think that improvement works only one way. Didn't the financials of TCs improve? Don't they now have more than what they had before? Why they gave nothing back to us? Trust and respect do not work if one side only gives and the other only takes. If they will not give anything anyways, then why the hell should we continue to give?

why do you want to unite with such people then?

What do you mean by "such people"? Those people are not different than us. The majority of people in general (including us) are greedy and if they have the chance to gain on the expense of somebody else they will do it. This is why laws exist, to limit this phenomenon. However they found what they think is a way around those laws. We should make them understand that there is no way around the laws and that we will allow nobody will gain on our loss. That if they try to gain on our loss that we will make sure they will actually loose more instead. Only in this way they will come back to their senses.

[zan]

What do you mean by "such people"? Those people are not different than us. The majority of people in general (including us) are greedy and if they have the chance to gain on the expense of somebody else they will do it. This is why laws exist, to limit this phenomenon. However they found what they think is a way around those laws. We should make them understand that there is no way around the laws and that we will allow nobody will gain on our loss. That if they try to gain on our loss that we will make sure they will actually loose more instead. Only in this way they will come back to their senses.

So you're going over to extremism in order to find a more fair deal, is that what you are saying?

Your using the stick to make us behave but you have no intention of beating us to the ground?

Well if you read MOST of the posts on this forum, they are way ahead of you. They are already looking for a middle ground. By using the stick all you are doing is getting a very angry response and making no lea way. Most people have come to realise that only some of you’re requests can be met in order to get anywhere near a solution. If you persist in your attitude it can only mean that you do want to use the stick to its fullest. We all wish we could make it all go away but some of us have stuck our heads out from underneath the covers and found that there is no bogeyman.

[Piratis]

So you're going over to extremism in order to find a more fair deal, is that what you are saying?

No. I am not saying anything like this. The extremists are the ones that insist on human rights violations and things that exist in no other country in the world. What I support is human rights, democracy and what is considered normal in every other EU country.

Well if you read MOST of the posts on this forum, they are way ahead of you. They are already looking for a middle ground.

And were is the middle ground? Before 1960 we wanted union with Greece (lets call that 0) and you wanted partition (lets call it 100). The 1960 was the compromise we agreed. (lets call that 50). Now were is the "middle ground" according to you??

The middle ground is the 1960 agreements and this is what I support: Return to legality. What you support has nothing to do with the "middle ground", and everythig to do with using your military power to gain on our loss.