Cyprus-Forum.com

[TheCabbie]

I think that history will show Denktash to have been one of the cleverest Cypriot politicians ever.

By opening the "border" he allowed the TC the chance of wealth they could never of dreamed of, probably more than many will have the chance of on the Turkish mainland.

He also put the Greek Cypriot side firmly on their back foot, to maintain the principle of a united people of Cyprus they have to allow TCs to come to the government controlled areas for work, (in the Famagusta areas this is a real problem, I've got relatives who can't get work on the constrution sites as all jobs are taken by TCs), to travel, sometimes there are as many TC taxi drivers at Larnaca as GCs, and to use the public health service, which I believe is costing a great deal, and stretching the resources of the system.
On top of that there are the casinos and cabarets which are taking a fortune from the GCs.

However, since the "border" opened the greatest source of revenue for the TC area (I'm not sure how this has worked it's way into the ordinary TC pocket though) has been the massive increase in property sales, having the border open has given land sales in the North a lot of credibility with foreigners ignorant of the legal situation, I've spoken to people who've bought land noth of Famagusta who've said that "it's OK now the border's open" !(BTW, they don't use " Quotation Marks" when refering to the "border").

It seems to me, and I make money taking tourists up to the TC controlled areas, there are far more TCs coming to the South than GCs going to the North now, and that the GC are getting well and truly screwed everyday the checkpoints are open!

So.....WHY keep it open?... WHY not close it?

[cypezokyli]

TheCabbie, u didnt post much up to now but i am afraid that i am going to be a little hard on you.

we keep it open because we (like to) argue that cyprus is one.
we keep it open because we (are supposed to) represent all cypriots. if we close it then WE will be the ones preventing free access in our on island.
we keep it open because it best suits cyprus. because we cannot argue that we want union when we act like the turkish army did for the last 30 years.
we provide public health because it is the human thing to do. because the goverment of cyprus cannot and shouldnot deny access to public health to none of its citizens. we do it because it is the right thing to do , and not to ask for gratitude. i dont know if u pretend to be a christian like some others but i guess u know the story about the two going to church the one prugging for his generosity and the one apologising. or what our people say: kane to kalo kai rih to sto gyalo. do the right thing and throw it in the sea. to be honest if i were a tc i would really prefer to pay than having arrogant gcs reminding me for their generosity. it has been repeated so many times in this forum that it really starts getting on my nerves.

the cyprus problem will only have a chance of being solved if we finally reach a point of stop comparing ourselves with the others. this neocypriot attitude of having some money in our pockets and think that we keep god from the balls it starts making me sick. "we give them wages that they couldnt dream of"...i mean what kind of arrogant attitude is this ? from a country which the majority of its people pretends to be christian and/or leftwink or even worse antiamerican. from a country which the majority of its people were poor farmers 30 years ago.

from one side we dont like to join with them and pay for them till the north reaches the same standard as ours, from the other when they get richer we dont like it. not to mention that we are completely missing the point here, are we after a solution with which we are going to live in peace with our compatriots (without exclamation marks) or do we care being the dominant race on the island?

when we have so many thousands of foreign workers in cyprus from phillipinas, sri lanka, banglandesh and i dont know what other, we mind having tcs working in our construction industry.
when ms giorkatji (nothing to do with that old killer) is day after day showing how we oursleves are ripping public money, when there is even possibility tht ministers are giving money to their wives companys and NOBODY GIVES A SHIT, we mind that some million dollars are given for the health of the tcs.

i am really sorry TheCabbie, but the borders will stay open. close them down, and will stop discussing in this forum because the cyprus problem will be solved.

[Alexios]

For God,s sake how can a country close its "borders" to its own cirtizens..??!!!!

[sadik]

I think that history will show Denktash to have been one of the cleverest Cypriot politicians ever.

By opening the "border" he allowed the TC the chance of wealth they could never of dreamed of, probably more than many will have the chance of on the Turkish mainland.

Denktas had nothing to do with the opening of the gates. And he did not like it. Gates were opened due to the extreme unrest in the TC community after Denktas' rejection of a solution plan. It also had the purpose of scoring some points to Turkey after the damage Denktas made by in Copenhagen.

[TheCabbie]

TheCabbie, u didnt post much up to now but i am afraid that i am going to be a little hard on you..

Thanks, I survived

Your points are valid and relevant, although I'm not sure if you're aware of how many TCs work in the free Famagusta area. (It's a LOT!)

I raised the questions as they're raised a lot lately by people who I know were ecstatic when the "border" was open, some of whom have been to the North, and by some who haven't.

Many of my GC friends feel there is no benefit at all in keeping it open, while I realise that the RoC government is keeping the moral high ground by keeping it open, it is debateable for how long the present status quo should continue.

On a less philanthropic note, now that TC have seen the benefits of reunification, would the closing not make them push their government towards making more compromises?

On that point I'm not sure if having the "border" open is contributing in any way towards getting a settlement acceptable to the GC side.

Sadik, you're probably correct that Dentash was pushed towards opening the "border", but I was expecting him to use the Turkish Army to suppress the unrest at the time, opening the "border" and reaping the benifits was clever and completely unexpected by most people in the world, and certainly by every GC I've spoken to.

[cypezokyli]

Many of my GC friends feel there is no benefit at all in keeping it open, while I realise that the RoC government is keeping the moral high ground by keeping it open, it is debateable for how long the present status quo should continue.

it stirctly depends on how you define benefit. personally i gained from the opening of the borders.i ve gainedsome friends and i lost many of my stereotypes.

which status qo do you propose by the way?

On a less philanthropic note, now that TC have seen the benefits of reunification, would the closing not make them push their government towards making more compromises?

if you dont want to view it philanthropically, then view it strictly political. what is the political cost of closing the borders?

the tc already made one small revolution (even if it took them 30 years). we , not-deliberatly, pushed them away with our no. closing the borders will push them even further away.
moreover, how can you justify to the rest of the world that the RoC does not allow freedom of movement to its own people ?

On that point I'm not sure if having the "border" open is contributing in any way towards getting a settlement acceptable to the GC side. Confused

supposing u have a lot of tc there, as you say. supposing you pay them right with all the benefits they are allowed, and supposing you treat them right and not as the rich neocypriots who give them wages they couldnt dream of, then you are creating possible allies for the future. then it could be that you are building trust between the two communities. it could be that those tcs working there when they enter a discussion in north cyprus and listen to the phrase "the gc are after a chance to wipe us out of the island" they could reply "you know, i am working in the south and i can assure the gc are not planning to kill us"
the question is : do you treat them right? do you pay them right? do you give them all their benefits? do you consider that you attitude towards those workers could affect the way they vote? or are you sure that the tc yes, its going to be there waiting for us till eternity?

take a small balance and put the two on it. keeping the borders open and closing them. keeping them open its going to cost you some money (since that what the free famagusta gc seem to care about) keeping them closed can cost you your country.

[Kifeas]

I think that history will show Denktash to have been one of the cleverest Cypriot politicians ever.

By opening the "border" he allowed the TC the chance of wealth they could never of dreamed of, probably more than many will have the chance of on the Turkish mainland.

He also put the Greek Cypriot side firmly on their back foot, to maintain the principle of a united people of Cyprus they have to allow TCs to come to the government controlled areas for work, (in the Famagusta areas this is a real problem, I've got relatives who can't get work on the constrution sites as all jobs are taken by TCs), to travel, sometimes there are as many TC taxi drivers at Larnaca as GCs, and to use the public health service, which I believe is costing a great deal, and stretching the resources of the system.
On top of that there are the casinos and cabarets which are taking a fortune from the GCs.

However, since the "border" opened the greatest source of revenue for the TC area (I'm not sure how this has worked it's way into the ordinary TC pocket though) has been the massive increase in property sales, having the border open has given land sales in the North a lot of credibility with foreigners ignorant of the legal situation, I've spoken to people who've bought land noth of Famagusta who've said that "it's OK now the border's open" !(BTW, they don't use " Quotation Marks" when refering to the "border").

It seems to me, and I make money taking tourists up to the TC controlled areas, there are far more TCs coming to the South than GCs going to the North now, and that the GC are getting well and truly screwed everyday the checkpoints are open!

So.....WHY keep it open?... WHY not close it?

TheGabbie, if only you had just two cents of knowledge (not brain) of the issue you are talking about, namely to close the “borders,” you wouldn’t dare to even make a thought on it, set aside to suggest it. Such an act would have instantly put the biggest and final nail on the issue of “TRNC” recognition and definite partition. Unless you are one of those who prefer partition rather than a solution that will re-unify Cyprus!

As for the reason why property “sales” in the north have increased, it has nothing to do with the opening of the “borders.” It has to do with the provisions on the issue off property “settlement” as they were assumed and described in the A-plan, and the manipulative method by which they were utilized and presented by those trying to “sell” the properties in the north.

[cypezokyli]

geia sou re kifea, you made me laugh
being away from cyprus for the most part of the year, i really miss cypriot phrases

if only you had just two cents of knowledge (not brain)

no offence to thecabbie but i liked the phrase a lot.
i am wondering if it can be actually translated in english.
...
an eishes thkyo dramia nou

[Piratis]

What our government should do is to encourage all refugees to take their belongings and return to their homes.

The Turkish army will not accept it, and incidents similar to the ones of 1996 will happen again (hopefully with no victims). This will remind the whole world that the Turkish army is violating the basic human rights of 1000s of people and will force the Turks to close the gates themselves.

What is our Cyprus problem: Our human right violations and the illegal occupation of part of our country.
What is the Cyprus problem for the TCs: The isolation and the non recognition.

The opening of the gates serves the TCs to partly solve their problem while it doesn't help us at all (shortage of tourist destinations was never our problem). They should realize they can not solve their problem without solving ours, and there are ways to make them understand this.

[TheCabbie]

TheGabbie, if only you had just two cents of knowledge (not brain) of the issue you are talking about, namely to close the “borders,” you wouldn’t dare to even make a thought on it, set aside to suggest it...

This my friend ?...is a QUESTION MARK

It means I'm asking a question, not making a statement or suggestion. And here's another; WHY should I dare "not make a thought on it"?

If you're afraid of a question, you must be shitting yourself thinking about the answer...