Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

The RoC on the other hand is simply the Republic of Cyprus. It is your true home.

If only that was true, historically then we would not be in the situation we are today. To say the RoC is simply the Republic of Cyprus and all that needs to happen is for the TRNC to be destroyed is to simply try and sweep under the carpet the causes of what lead to the creation of the TRNC, which are embedded in the historic reality of ethnic division. The thesis that all that needs to happen today to create a viable fair united Cyprus is for the TRNC to be destroyed, is itself an ethnic based thesis, one that says the problems all started in 1974 and we just need to reverse what happened from 74 to today. If this really is the best you can offer me as a vision for a untied Cyprus then I am afraid it is not one that is sufficient to allay my fears given the historic reality that GC strove and fought for not just making a Greek Republic of All Cyprus but to actually make all Cyprus a part of Greece.

It has been said that GC can not remember anything before 74 and TC can not forget. To me your plea that we just need to destroy the TRNC is itself in essence an 'ethnic based' perspective that implies that the Cyprus problem started in 1974.

If you expect me to simply do all in my power to destroy the TRNC, whilst nothing is done in return to address the underlying issues that led to the creation of the TRNC in the first place and whilst GC posters here continue to argue that I am not a 'true' Cypriot and that my community has no right to an effective say on the future of their own country in the face of a non Cypriot EHTNIC based desired future from numerically larger 'true Cypriots' and tell me that the problems in Cyprus today are all the result of me being (ethnically) a thief who simply wanted to steal what was not his, then you are expecting to much from me. Give me a vision of a future united Cyprus where I am seen not as a remnant of the 'historic enemy of Hellenism' in my own country, convince me that if GREEKS in Cyprus were to once again demand union of Cyprus, my country and homeland as much as it is theirs, with Greece you would stand with me as a Cypriot and defend my right as a Cypriot not have such a future imposed on me against my will - then I will be with you in the front lines to try and destroy the TRNC. If all you can offer me however is 'destroy the TRNC' and we will all live together happily as Cypriots then I am afraid I am not with you. Too much blood has been spilt based on ethnic division for me to simply trust that. Do not forget there were those that through the 50s and 60's from both communities spoke against ethnic division and for unity as Cypriots together and you know what we did to those people back then ? We killed them for it, on both sides.

In a hundred years from now will this still be relevant or do we need 300 years to get past it all...?

the reality is that most TCs never want to get past this, not even in a 1000 years!

The majority are utilizing substantial amounts of stolen property, even the xevrakoti ones from pre 74. They don't want a solution. Therefore, they will be only too happy to peddle the above nonsense, to justify and keep the current status quo so that they can keep their grubby hands on the loot.

These are the facts, it's just that many don't want to say what they already know.

There is no foresight and they can't appreciate the opportunities that will come their way once their is a solution.

[erolz66]

... and tell me that the problems in Cyprus today are all the result of me being (ethnically) a thief who simply wanted to steal what was not his,....

The majority are utilizing substantial amounts of stolen property, even the xevrakoti ones from pre 74. They don't want a solution. Therefore, they will be only too happy to peddle the above nonsense, to justify and keep the current status quo so that they can keep their grubby hands on the loot. ...

See ?

Are there TC who gained more than they lost as a result of the events of 74 and as a result now do not want any solution that might threaten that gain ? Yes there are but to make out this is true of the majority of TC (or me personally) and thus the overriding reason why there has been no settlement since 74 is just not true in my opinion. I understand this kind of viewpoint and why the likes of Paphitis hold it but I personally think it is 'lazy' and in itself an excuse used to not have to look at the real reasons why so many TC are not willing to just forget the past and abandon the TRNC and go and live in the RoC.

[Paphitis]

... and tell me that the problems in Cyprus today are all the result of me being (ethnically) a thief who simply wanted to steal what was not his,....

The majority are utilizing substantial amounts of stolen property, even the xevrakoti ones from pre 74. They don't want a solution. Therefore, they will be only too happy to peddle the above nonsense, to justify and keep the current status quo so that they can keep their grubby hands on the loot. ...

See ?

Are there TC who gained more than they lost as a result of the events of 74 and as a result now do not want any solution that might threaten that gain ? Yes there are but to make out this is true of the majority of TC (or me personally) and thus the overriding reason why there has been no settlement since 74 is just not true in my opinion. I understand this kind of viewpoint and why the likes of Paphitis hold it but I personally think it is 'lazy' and in itself an excuse used to not have to look at the real reasons why so many TC are not willing to just forget the past and abandon the TRNC and go and live in the RoC.

No I never mentioned you personally.

But I stand by on my claim that the majority are in fact better off than what they were in 74.

[erolz66]

No I never mentioned you personally.

But I stand by on my claim that the majority are in fact better off than what they were in 74.

OK let me try and explain my position in a different way. This is really an answer to tsukoui

Convince me that as a Cypriot you would defend me and my community as Cypriots ahead of and before defending 'Hellenism' and I will tomorrow abandon the TRNC and Turkey and stand with you. Tell me that I must abandon the TRNC and Turkey without even acknowledging that I have any cause or reason to want you to convince me that you would defend me and my community as Cypriots ahead of and before defending 'Hellenism', then I am afraid, that despite wanting a united Cyprus, you ask too much from me. I know there are TC for whom this is not too much to ask but I am not one of them nor do I think there are more like them than like me, at least today.

[Oceanside50]

No I never mentioned you personally.

But I stand by on my claim that the majority are in fact better off than what they were in 74.

OK let me try and explain my position in a different way. This is really an answer to tsukoui

Convince me that as a Cypriot you would defend me and my community as Cypriots ahead of and before defending 'Hellenism' and I will tomorrow abandon the TRNC and Turkey and stand with you. Tell me that I must abandon the TRNC and Turkey without even acknowledging that I have any cause or reason to want you to convince me that you would defend me and my community as Cypriots ahead of and before defending 'Hellenism', then I am afraid, that despite wanting a united Cyprus, you ask too much from me. I know there are TC for whom this is not too much to ask but I am not one of them nor do I think there are more like them than like me, at least today.

What differences do you see between what a Swede wants and what a Cypriot wants today? In my opinion they both want a safe and secure environment to live in, where the rule of law is paramount. If you disagree then prove me wrong. Unless you have a problem with Swedes also.

[Paphitis]

No I never mentioned you personally.

But I stand by on my claim that the majority are in fact better off than what they were in 74.

OK let me try and explain my position in a different way. This is really an answer to tsukoui

Convince me that as a Cypriot you would defend me and my community as Cypriots ahead of and before defending 'Hellenism' and I will tomorrow abandon the TRNC and Turkey and stand with you. Tell me that I must abandon the TRNC and Turkey without even acknowledging that I have any cause or reason to want you to convince me that you would defend me and my community as Cypriots ahead of and before defending 'Hellenism', then I am afraid, that despite wanting a united Cyprus, you ask too much from me. I know there are TC for whom this is not too much to ask but I am not one of them nor do I think there are more like them than like me, at least today.

Apart from being impossible to prove I shouldn't have to.

But for what it is worth (I don't believe many TCs value the good will), of course I would defend you as a Cypriot. If I lived in Cyprus, any fucker will have to get through me first before they got to any TC, and I firmly believe no one would even try so no need for heroics from me in any case which is just the way I would want it. Not only this, but I would welcome certain TCs into my home, not just as Cypriots but as family. The RoC is a member of the EU and it still has a constitution which protects TC rights. Even the 15 seats in Parliament are still apportioned to the TC community, including the Vice Presidency. Turkey knows this.

Those days are long gone. No one is willing to die for Hellenism but I do fear that some TCs still live in a time warp. It's not their fault. They live in a Turkish Boot camp and the young ones are taught about the past. It's not in Turkey's interest to let this go because they do not want to let Cyprus go.

The GC's have moved on long ago. The vast majority of GC's are educated in UK and USA now. They, apart from being Cypriot have been internationalized to some extent and whether they like it or not, have British and American influences within their worldview outlook. In the old days, Cypriots were lucky to finish Secondary School.

Cyprus has progressed, albeit with a substantial hand brake.

[Paphitis]

200 hundred years ago, there were far greater violations and atrocities occurring in the US, Australia and Canada. But now look at these countries and what has been achieved.

They are now the benchmark in democracy and human rights. But obviously there comes a point where the slate is clean. Otherwise there can be no hope for anyone. You can't hold an American, Australian or Canadian responsible to this day for what happened a couple of centuries ago. How can it be when their societies are so multicultural now? The vast majority of our citizens are actually of continental Wuropean ancestry and certainly were not those Cowboys in them there hills killing the Indyans.

The day will come where everyone just dies out. The younger generation are not responsible for what some illiterate fools did 50 years ago or more.

Sadly however, some will have you believe that Cypriots will eat TC babies. Well no! Cypriots are no different to any American, Canadian or Australian. Given half the opportunities the other countries have had, there is no way there is any danger to any TC. But the question remains. Are the TCs ready? I don't think they are or ever will be!

[erolz66]

What differences do you see between what a Swede wants and what a Cypriot wants today? In my opinion they both want a safe and secure environment to live in, where the rule of law is paramount. If you disagree then prove me wrong. Unless you have a problem with Swedes also.

Oceanside50 the difference is that it is only 50 years ago that Cypriots were killing each other because they saw themselves as Greeks and Turks ahead of being Cypriot and sought entirely different futures for Cyprus defined by their differences as Greek and Turkish. The existence of the TRNC today is a consequence of this reality. Expecting me as a TC to simply abandon the TRNC and work for it's destruction in the 'hope' that this is no longer the case today and will never be the case again in the future is an expectation to far, for me personally at least.

[GreekIslandGirl]

50 Years ago, the natives of this island, Greek Cypriots, were fighting for democracy. The Turks (aka "TCs") were fighting for complete re-control over the natives and their lands. These TCs have fulfilled half their objective. Living proof.

[erolz66]

50 Years ago, the natives of this island, Greek Cypriots, were fighting for democracy. The Turks (aka "TCs") were fighting for complete re-control over the natives and their lands. These TCs have fulfilled half their objective. Living proof.

Tsukoi if you needed a clearer example of why I need to know as a Cypriot you would defend me and my community as Cypriots ahead of and before defending 'Hellenism' before I could work with you to destroy the TRNC, it would be hard to find one more suitable than the above.