Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz66]

In the case of the “TRNC” though… not being a recognized state but the occupied territory of a recognized state, CO takes on a different dimension altogether.

This I totally accept and agree with.

[bill cobbett]

Good news...

In a very short report, Yeniduzen reports that CY Haluk walked away from his incarceration this morning.

[repulsewarrior]

AKEL MEP Neoklis Sylikiotis raises the right of the Turkishcypriot Haluk Selam Tufanli to conscientious objection before the European Commission
http://www.akel.org.cy/en/?p=2885

And will this Euro MP be making representations about the RoC CO option being 33 months rather than 24 for the military and that the CO option is still run by the Military and about the discrimination of obligation based on ethnicity and gender in the RoC I wonder ? Call me a cynic but somehow I doubt it.

Erolz, this is exactly what I am getting at. A Cypriot MEP represents a Cypriot in the occupied territory and you accuse him of double standards. I feel you are buying into the ethnic-narrative, seeing yourself as Turkish and him as Greek and therefore he must be at fault. The RoC is your country. Cypriot MEPs are your MEPs. If you want him to raise the issues you are concerned about, write to him. Instead, however, I feel you are accepting the so called "trnc" as your country, accepting the division and accepting the narrative that we are not all Cypriots but somehow irreconcilably different. If you want to see unity, and I hope you do, you must ditch this ethnic-narrative, and that means ditching the "trnc" as Murat has done, because the "trnc" only exists so long as we accept the ethnic narrative.

...well said tsukoui, our acts, and our letters define what these MEPs will be, whatever they are (now). if there is a strong reaction, an organised segment of a population, any politician takes that into consideration with his representations. as Cypriots, we can profit from making our demands accordingly, representing ourselves as Cypriots, Individuals whose concern are the Universal Principals on which our Freedom is based. one will hope that as Persons, Greek Cypriots may see the value of a Greek Constituency, if at another level of Government there existed National Assemblies where Citizens, as Cypriot Constituencies secured this Liberty, by sustaining their distinct identities respectfully toward the minorities that live among them, in effect by being closer to the taxes they pay.

...erolz, unless you are a "Turk", or a "Greek", in my opinion there is the need to defend the alternative, that "they" are in a larger set of People, called Cypriots. in all the years i've posted, as you know, i have tried to demonstrate that this possibility exists, because in the realm of possibilities it is the one none of us should discount, or deny. whatever the grievances we may have with each other on this Forum, Cyprus deserves better than picking "sides", and based on "their" opinions, scoring points for "your" side. i suggest as food for thought that you are a powerful writer, and all of us may benefit, if your efforts did not appear to be so personal, and beside its caustic nature, enriching. i applaud bill for his ability to bring subjects to this Forum we can consider, this one is another where the Truth is defined by the questioning of authority, and it is in my mind very hopeful, like many other he's found to talk about, they represent Turkish Cypriots we can support, and emulate.

...i'm late pushing the send button, (i think the post above says it all), good news, thanks bill.

[bill cobbett]

Why, thx RW ...

To our GR and others who have served or still serve in the NG, and who may have doubts about CO ...

Firstly, there is a duty to respect the Laws of the Republic cos ultimately isn't it that order you defend...???

... and one of those laws is the right to CO and to do the community service in lieu of live action of the killing type, albeit with a longer term of service and also albeit a law that is sexist.

Secondly, from a pragmatic military view, would any commander in the field really want a CO in their Company...???

[erolz66]

i applaud bill for his ability to bring subjects to this Forum we can consider,....

Even if he only ever brings subjects to this forum that paint the TRNC and those who live there in a negative light and never brings any that paint the RoC in a negative light ? If consistently over time all he ever does is bring stories defined specifically by the 'then and us' you claim to want to get away from ?

[Lordo]

i dont think rw realises the consequences of bullaruis posts. long may he live and post. he is doing excellent work for those who wish to divide cyprus.

[bill cobbett]

Wassa matter Cousin...??? You better have words with Amnesty as well.

Brief note of Haluk's release appears on Amnesty International's site...

Was it really a military prison...???

"... Conscientious objector Haluk Selam Tufanlı was released from military prison on 12 December. He served eight days of a 10-day sentence because releases over the weekend are not possible in the territory of northern Cyprus. ..."

http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/info/ ... 24/2014/en

[tsukoui]

In the case of the “TRNC” though… not being a recognized state but the occupied territory of a recognized state, CO takes on a different dimension altogether.

This I totally accept and agree with.

But this is the point. I do not know Haluk personally, but Murat is promoting him and I know Murat. His agenda is far more than just getting rights to CO. It is civil disobedience designed to destroy the "trnc". No one who is interested in living in a united Cyprus should be defending the "trnc", defending TCs rights, yes, but not an occupation whose very premise is ethnic division. It is called the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. Its whole existence depends on the ethnic narrative of conflict. The RoC on the other hand is simply the Republic of Cyprus. It is your true home.

[erolz66]

The RoC on the other hand is simply the Republic of Cyprus. It is your true home.

If only that was true, historically then we would not be in the situation we are today. To say the RoC is simply the Republic of Cyprus and all that needs to happen is for the TRNC to be destroyed is to simply try and sweep under the carpet the causes of what lead to the creation of the TRNC, which are embedded in the historic reality of ethnic division. The thesis that all that needs to happen today to create a viable fair united Cyprus is for the TRNC to be destroyed, is itself an ethnic based thesis, one that says the problems all started in 1974 and we just need to reverse what happened from 74 to today. If this really is the best you can offer me as a vision for a untied Cyprus then I am afraid it is not one that is sufficient to allay my fears given the historic reality that GC strove and fought for not just making a Greek Republic of All Cyprus but to actually make all Cyprus a part of Greece.

It has been said that GC can not remember anything before 74 and TC can not forget. To me your plea that we just need to destroy the TRNC is itself in essence an 'ethnic based' perspective that implies that the Cyprus problem started in 1974.

If you expect me to simply do all in my power to destroy the TRNC, whilst nothing is done in return to address the underlying issues that led to the creation of the TRNC in the first place and whilst GC posters here continue to argue that I am not a 'true' Cypriot and that my community has no right to an effective say on the future of their own country in the face of a non Cypriot EHTNIC based desired future from numerically larger 'true Cypriots' and tell me that the problems in Cyprus today are all the result of me being (ethnically) a thief who simply wanted to steal what was not his, then you are expecting to much from me. Give me a vision of a future united Cyprus where I am seen not as a remnant of the 'historic enemy of Hellenism' in my own country, convince me that if GREEKS in Cyprus were to once again demand union of Cyprus, my country and homeland as much as it is theirs, with Greece you would stand with me as a Cypriot and defend my right as a Cypriot not have such a future imposed on me against my will - then I will be with you in the front lines to try and destroy the TRNC. If all you can offer me however is 'destroy the TRNC' and we will all live together happily as Cypriots then I am afraid I am not with you. Too much blood has been spilt based on ethnic division for me to simply trust that. Do not forget there were those that through the 50s and 60's from both communities spoke against ethnic division and for unity as Cypriots together and you know what we did to those people back then ? We killed them for it, on both sides.

[Oceanside50]

The RoC on the other hand is simply the Republic of Cyprus. It is your true home.

If only that was true, historically then we would not be in the situation we are today. To say the RoC is simply the Republic of Cyprus and all that needs to happen is for the TRNC to be destroyed is to simply try and sweep under the carpet the causes of what lead to the creation of the TRNC, which are embedded in the historic reality of ethnic division. The thesis that all that needs to happen today to create a viable fair united Cyprus is for the TRNC to be destroyed, is itself an ethnic based thesis, one that says the problems all started in 1974 and we just need to reverse what happened from 74 to today. If this really is the best you can offer me as a vision for a untied Cyprus then I am afraid it is not one that is sufficient to allay my fears given the historic reality that GC strove and fought for not just making a Greek Republic of All Cyprus but to actually make all Cyprus a part of Greece.

It has been said that GC can not remember anything before 74 and TC can not forget. To me your plea that we just need to destroy the TRNC is itself in essence an 'ethnic based' perspective that implies that the Cyprus problem started in 1974.

If you expect me to simply do all in my power to destroy the TRNC, whilst nothing is done in return to address the underlying issues that led to the creation of the TRNC in the first place and whilst GC posters here continue to argue that I am not a 'true' Cypriot and that my community has no right to an effective say on the future of their own country in the face of a non Cypriot EHTNIC based desired future from numerically larger 'true Cypriots' and tell me that the problems in Cyprus today are all the result of me being (ethnically) a thief who simply wanted to steal what was not his, then you are expecting to much from me. Give me a vision of a future united Cyprus where I am seen not as a remnant of the 'historic enemy of Hellenism' in my own country, convince me that if GREEKS in Cyprus were to once again demand union of Cyprus, my country and homeland as much as it is theirs, with Greece you would stand with me as a Cypriot and defend my right as a Cypriot not have such a future imposed on me against my will - then I will be with you in the front lines to try and destroy the TRNC. If all you can offer me however is 'destroy the TRNC' and we will all live together happily as Cypriots then I am afraid I am not with you. Too much blood has been spilt based on ethnic division for me to simply trust that. Do not forget there were those that through the 50s and 60's from both communities spoke against ethnic division and for unity as Cypriots together and you know what we did to those people back then ? We killed them for it, on both sides.

In a hundred years from now will this still be relevant or do we need 300 years to get past it all...?