Cyprus-Forum.com

[Lordo]

with the embargo the tcs are made to be totally dependent on terggy. with that kind of dependence every day that goes by it strengthens. there comes a time you realise that as roc far from helping your nationals in the north, she is driving them away. then comes the big decision. just like you can fight fire with fire, you can fight division with division. roc should give the tcs the right to decide and hope that the tcs vote for union. just like what we had in uk with the scotts.

the embargoes have not worked and will never work. the old excuse that the hotel industry in the north is built on gc land is bullshit perpetuated by the fascists like charlui on this forum. there is more tc lands in the south in terms of value than gc lands in the north being used by the greek cypriots without any problems of trespassing on tc lands.

when you legalise criminality and then criminalise legality, then you end up in this mess. so yes you are right, the only solution left is division. may god help cyprus and cypriots because they cannot help themselves. the phone lines to god by the archbishoppory have been disconnected since 1955, when greek orthodox church encouraged violence against innocent greek cypriots and terggish cypiots alike because they could see what was coming and did not support it.

when they tied a man on the tree by the church and the priest encouraged the school children to stone a man to death is when god looked the other way. god has not turned around since and will not turn with such b'stards in power.

[bill cobbett]

Look chaps, can we please keep to the matter of a CY locked up in a Turkish Dungeon for his pacifism.

What will it take to get him out...???

What will it take to prevent other CYs enduring the same torture for their peace-loving beliefs in the future...???

Wouldn't it help if leading politicians in the Turkish Province of "trnc" , the regime that cousin Lardo has so much hope for, had the same courage as the CY Haluk (and before him Murat Kantli) and spoke up for the HRs of COs.... or even had the political courage to urge a public debate.

So, whilst naturally not expecting anything at all from the ultra-fascists Eroglu and Dengtash jnr, where is Talat ??? Where is Cybil ... ??? and what support has Yorgancıoğlu offered to promote the rights of CYs to CO. ...???

So far, the only support the guzey side of the tracks has been from a few young CYs, the UCP and the trades-unionists.

[erolz66]

How can a Greek Cypriot support resistance to the occupation in the North without being accused of stirring up trouble ?

Easily actually and historically there have been GC posters here who regularly did such, though they have largely gone now and were usually called 'traitors' but many fellow GC posters here for their trouble. How can a TC support the unification of Cyprus in the face of GC telling them that they are not Cypriots and never have been but are Turkish invaders, who know only how to rob and steal and take what is not theirs because they are 'Turk' and who ignore or deny the part their community has played in the tragedy that is Cyprus today and still insists that GC had every right to impose enosis on TC against their communal will and with no need for any consideration for that communal will of TC in their own shared homeland at the end of British rule ?

I believe that Bill C is not sincere or genuine in his 'outrage' over this issue not because he is GC and not because he supports the end of Turkish presence in Cyprus but because it is part of a consistent pattern of behaviour on his part in regards to countless posts here over many years.

[erolz66]

Look chaps, can we please keep to the matter of a CY locked up in a Turkish Dungeon for his pacifism.

What will it take to get him out...???

What will it take to prevent other CYs enduring the same torture for their peace-loving beliefs in the future...???

What did you (personally) do to get this practice stopped in the RoC in the 80's and early 90's ? Maybe we can learn from that ? What are you (personally) doing today to end the difference between those in the RoC that choose the CO option and those that do not and to end the discrimination of compulsion based on gender and ethnicity ?

One thing you (personally) could do Bill, but patently will not do, is choose NOT to try and exploit this persons situation for political reasons.

[Get Real!]

AKEL MEP Neoklis Sylikiotis raises the right of the Turkishcypriot Haluk Selam Tufanli to conscientious objection before the European Commission
http://www.akel.org.cy/en/?p=2885

[erolz66]

AKEL MEP Neoklis Sylikiotis raises the right of the Turkishcypriot Haluk Selam Tufanli to conscientious objection before the European Commission
http://www.akel.org.cy/en/?p=2885

And will this Euro MP be making representations about the RoC CO option being 33 months rather than 24 for the military and that the CO option is still run by the Military and about the discrimination of obligation based on ethnicity and gender in the RoC I wonder ? Call me a cynic but somehow I doubt it.

[Get Real!]

AKEL MEP Neoklis Sylikiotis raises the right of the Turkishcypriot Haluk Selam Tufanli to conscientious objection before the European Commission
http://www.akel.org.cy/en/?p=2885

And will this Euro MP be making representations about the RoC CO option being 33 months rather than 24 for the military and that the CO option is still run by the Military and about the discrimination of obligation based on ethnicity and gender in the RoC I wonder ? Call me a cynic but somehow I doubt it.

I don’t personally support COs… but I figured I’d post something relevant since Bill was complaining… but I have no idea what Sylikiotis’ stance is on the issues you raised.

In my days it was 26 months and the only COs I recall back then were Jehovah’s Witnesses who were imprisoned at the central prisons in a special isolated wing for pretty much the same period.

In the case of the “TRNC” though… not being a recognized state but the occupied territory of a recognized state, CO takes on a different dimension altogether.

[tsukoui]

AKEL MEP Neoklis Sylikiotis raises the right of the Turkishcypriot Haluk Selam Tufanli to conscientious objection before the European Commission
http://www.akel.org.cy/en/?p=2885

And will this Euro MP be making representations about the RoC CO option being 33 months rather than 24 for the military and that the CO option is still run by the Military and about the discrimination of obligation based on ethnicity and gender in the RoC I wonder ? Call me a cynic but somehow I doubt it.

Erolz, this is exactly what I am getting at. A Cypriot MEP represents a Cypriot in the occupied territory and you accuse him of double standards. I feel you are buying into the ethnic-narrative, seeing yourself as Turkish and him as Greek and therefore he must be at fault. The RoC is your country. Cypriot MEPs are your MEPs. If you want him to raise the issues you are concerned about, write to him. Instead, however, I feel you are accepting the so called "trnc" as your country, accepting the division and accepting the narrative that we are not all Cypriots but somehow irreconcilably different. If you want to see unity, and I hope you do, you must ditch this ethnic-narrative, and that means ditching the "trnc" as Murat has done, because the "trnc" only exists so long as we accept the ethnic narrative.

[Paphitis]

Today's Military require the use of advance technologies. You need just as many geeks behind computer screens as well as the specially trained special forces which are trained to move around in small groups. These are not your typical soldiers you had in WW1 or WW2 but highly trained individuals with the ability to adapt in all kinds of circumstances against all adversity which would break your average conscript. I understand why the RoC has compulsory Military Service, but it is very damaging having individuals that don't want to be a part of it even after their training. You need to have the right people in the right jobs. Not everyone can be a soldier. But today's Armies need the geeks too! They are just as important if not more important.

CO should be left with other options such as Community Service. Punishing them by sending them to jail is not quite right. I think normal societies are capable of much better than this in my opinion!

Today's warfare has many other options which could even incorporate many CO's even, but if that's still not an option then Community Service. Cyprus has a Citizens Gendarmerie and that could be a good place for CO's.

As for the "trnc", I would expect nothing else from such an illegal fascist state. The RoC however is well beyond that and of a far more western and advanced mentality.

[erolz66]

Erolz, this is exactly what I am getting at. A Cypriot MEP represents a Cypriot in the occupied territory and you accuse him of double standards. I feel you are buying into the ethnic-narrative, seeing yourself as Turkish and him as Greek and therefore he must be at fault. The RoC is your country. Cypriot MEPs are your MEPs. If you want him to raise the issues you are concerned about, write to him. Instead, however, I feel you are accepting the so called "trnc" as your country, accepting the division and accepting the narrative that we are not all Cypriots but somehow irreconcilably different. If you want to see unity, and I hope you do, you must ditch this ethnic-narrative, and that means ditching the "trnc" as Murat has done, because the "trnc" only exists so long as we accept the ethnic narrative.

I asked the question. Tell me that actually this person has been active historically in getting a CO option implemented in the RoC before 92 and or that he is active today in lobbying for the remaining discrepancies in the RoC system to be amended and I will say thanks to him as one Cypriot to another for trying to help Cypriots. If however the truth is this person had no interest in the issue in the RoC, before 92 or since and only NOW is expressing concerns about this issue then I say I strongly suspect that HE is choosing to use this as a weapon in the on going "ethnic-narrative" and I can only react accordingly.

The point I am making is it 'takes two to ditch an ethnic narrative', it is not something that I can be expected to do in isolation.